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Old Today, 00:47
noodkleopatra
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You haven't even read something and you call it fiction ?

Go into any library or bookshop and it will not be in the fiction section.
Neither will books on Greek Mythology. Do you think all that happened?
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Old Today, 01:42
droogiefret
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As you missed it.
Sorry Flash
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Old Today, 01:48
spiney2
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Neither will books on Greek Mythology. Do you think all that happened?
were the greek gods not personifications of human characteristics ? That's breaking 5 of the 10 commandments .........
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Old Today, 01:59
droogiefret
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I wonder if people who feel so confident that Jesus existed feel the same about the existence of the Devil ? The Bible has quite a bit to say about 'Beelzebub' but many Christians dismiss his actual existence.
Perhaps I'm being flippant ?
There is evidence in the Bible that people at the time believed Beelzubub existed. It doesn't really go much further than that.

"The Sermon on the mount" not delivered in one speech is not a sermon.
I feel your pain. Nevertheless, for a long time scholars thought it was a collection of sayings redacted into a 'sermon' by the evangelist and later editors.

I still like to think of Jesus delivering it in one powerful speech. I am sure he did give powerful speeches that changed lives so even if the one in NT is not verbatim it does the trick for me.
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Old Today, 02:22
noodkleopatra
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were the greek gods not personifications of human characteristics ? That's breaking 5 of the 10 commandments .........
Breaking five of the ten commandments... and? What's your point there?

Greek mythology had its own religious rules and regulations. Does that mean it's all possible? Not at all. They had Gods breeding with mortals too.

That's the trouble with taking religious doctrine as if it is fact. You apply a whole set of criteria that isn't, in the realms of plausibility, applicable.
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Old Today, 02:27
noodkleopatra
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As for the Devil, aside from being even more implausible than God itself, it's a tidy little creation - a 'get out of jail free' card, if you will - for the age-long question of "Why does such a perfect God let such shit things happen?', as well as being a tidy little story arc for Jesus's narrative as a saviour.

Oh, that wasn't God, that was Satan. Oh, that wasn't God, that was down to human free will.

Give praise and credit to God for all the good things, but all the bad things, that's not down to God, and if it is, it's because we deserved it for allowing the Devil to control us.

Or at least that's what Mainstream Christianity seems to be implying.
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Old Today, 03:59
spiney2
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Well, yes. If you personify existence itself (god is the reason why ''anything exists''), and morality (god is good), then to have evil as an ''impersonal force'' seems somewhat illogical ......
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Old Today, 04:09
Keyser_Soze1
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Well, yes. If you personify existence itself (god is the reason why ''anything exists''), and morality (god is good), then to have evil as an ''impersonal force'' seems somewhat illogical ......
The creation of the Devil was merely a get of of jail free card for Yahweh - and not a very convincing one either.

Mind you at least Satan never wiped out an entire planet with a flood or sent Azrael to slaughter the innocent firstborn of the Egyptians (for example).

This is what the LORD says: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."

— Exodus 11:4–6

Lovely.
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Old Today, 04:13
spiney2
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To call evil ''absence of good'', just as shadow is ''absence of light'', that wd be Pelagius' heresy.
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Old Today, 04:19
spiney2
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The creation of the Devil was merely a get of of jail free card for Yahweh - and not a very convincing one either.

Mind you at least Satan never wiped out an entire planet with a flood or sent Azrael to slaughter the innocent firstborn of the Egyptians (for example).

This is what the LORD says: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again."

— Exodus 11:4–6

Lovely.
so, if YHWH is immoral, you're taking the bibble as fact not fiction ?
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Old Today, 04:24
Keyser_Soze1
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so, if YHWH is immoral, you're taking the bibble as fact not fiction ?
Not at all.

Just giving an example of the fantastic mental gymnastics Biblical literalists have to use when excusing their God of his appalling tyrannical behaviour.
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Old Today, 04:30
spiney2
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But, ''the wages of sin is death''. As any religious loony preacher, ranting in the town centre saturday afternoon, will tell you. Pretty much the entire point of christianity, is, new testament supercedes old testament .........st paul explains it all in Romans ......
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Old Today, 04:34
spiney2
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Why am i having to explain very basic bibbble doctine ? The religious nutters plant these threads, as part of their ''witnessing'', then just run away ......
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Old Today, 04:44
spiney2
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I thought christian doctrine was still taught in schools, as part of ''religious studies''. And at church and sunday school of course, for them devout believers who go to such places. But, apparently not. Evangelicals have taken over, and far too busy strumming guitars, etc .......
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Old Today, 04:58
spiney2
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As to what different branches of religions believe, lots of people seem just as confused as richard dawkins so obviously is .........
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