You're assuming that placebo is even a thing.


Wait! If aspirin has physical ingredients, then it can't be placebo as you've indicated above, can it?

Seeing as you're unable (or unwilling) to use that example; provide me with a miracle by health that I can use as an example.


That's a bloody big if, and unless you were remotely religious, the holy spirit (or whatever) would be the last basis for your cure.

Some things can't be cured (at least, not yet). Everything else that gets cured is done so in one of two ways; science or nature. Either your body will fix itself over time, or you'll be prescribed with drugs to help your body recover. If not that, then you'll go under the knife and get some help from someone else.

Did I not ask earlier for someone to provide me with a bunch of alleged modern day miracles? I'm still waiting on them!

Did you read what I wrote? Aspirin is not a placebo. It physically blocks an enzyme.

A placebo has no active physical ingredient that targets anything. As far as is known, it involves the patient's belief he will be healed. So it's a mini miracle in that no one knows how belief can cure.

I've been told on numerous occasions, that I must believe in Jesus to get into Heaven. I'm not sure how I'm meant to force myself to truly believe in something I simply don't, but I'm working on it!

I'm still waiting bollywood.


bollywood?


I know what placebo is. I'm trying to get you to answer a series of questions though, that you conveniently manage to avoid.


To be honest, you'd be better off just living your life to please yourself. I've heard so many different ideologies about how to get into Heaven, and how to follow the path of Jesus or how to do right by God over the years that it's amazing if anyone truly knows exactly what they're suppose to be doing. It's all open to interpretation anyway.

Live your life as you see fit. If you're deemed good, you'll be let in, if not, I'll likely see you in Hell. That said, if Jesus died for our sins, we're all getting in anyway, so yeah.

If you know what a placebo is, then why did you say there are only two ways, drugs or the body heals itself over time?

I gave you placebo as an example of someone who is cured by belief that the placebo will cure him.

Because the two answers I provided are all there is. Even if the body heals over time, placebo is still in effect. If your mind is healing your body, then it's still your body (through your mind - which controls your body) healing itself.


But that's not what I asked, is it? I have asked you to provide me with examples of modern day miracles. Chop Chop.

Science can't explain how the mind can cure the body, if science tells us the mind is a product of the body.

The 'body does something ... something through your mind' is a very vague statement.

It's not an explanation. The placebo effect isn't rational in science as it's now practiced,

Why placebo is called a miracle pill.

Plus you need to focus on my definition of miracle.

Once you believe in one impossible thing it is quite easy to believe in more; with practice you can believe in as many as six impossible things before breakfast

Can't it? The mind (the brain) is one giant squishy organ full of electrodes and chemicals (amongst other things). The brain (our mind) controls our bodily functions, it tells the body to use the food we eat as fuel, it tells our bladder when we need to unload, it tells our hair and nails to grow (etc etc).


The body does exactly as the mind (the brain - same thing) tells it to do.


Examples/Resources please.


Your definition of a miracle is something that can't be explained by science, right? What exactly is it that you think Jesus did? You still think he performed miracles, right? Presumably if those exact miracles were performed today, Science would have a way of explaining them; the only reason they're written as miracles is because Science back then wasn't half of what it is today.

Then, when you have mastered believing the impossible - you can move into trickier territory - believing contradictory things. But, with practice .....

edit: nice reference btw - one of my favourites

I think it would help if you knew what the word miracle meant. Try looking it up in the dictionary. Also I think it fair to assume that the Holy spirit existed long before religion ever did.

I disagree with the view that some things can't be cured. It's based on the assumption that the basis of our existence is the body. I say the basis of existence is mind. Anything can be cured.

The body does what the mind tells it to. Then you think the mind isn't just a product of the body? Well that's good news. So do I.

I don't think my body does whatever my mind tells it. My mind can tell my body it can leap tall buildings, but I never mastered that. The mind can do some pretty remarkable things though.

A placebo effect can be immediate. Not healing over time.

Yes I think it's plausible that Jesus performed miracles that science could not explain today but in one or two hundred years, they may. Healing the blind is still a miracle today, unless it has to do with hysterical blindness, that's not common.

OK then.

Let's discuss a potential miracle.

link

I hate to break it to you, but there is no proof that The Holy Ghost exists.


You are entitled to disagree. You disagreement though is likely based on your faith. I don't have that (a belief in faith) to limit me.


A slight exaggeration there, when I'm sure you know what I meant, and leaping across buildings isn't that.


If Jesus genuinely cured a blind man (bare in mind, this is only the word of an alleged witness many, many years ago) then that could be determined as a miracle (if a miracle is merely something unexplainable by science).

I personally do not believe that Jesus healed a blind person, or fed 5000 people with enough food that he initially had for 5. As mentioned earlier, everything we think we know we do so only because we've read about it, and historical writings are no guarantee of historic event accuracy, despite what you may choose to believe.


Two conclusions;

1) The assisting officer(s) were hearing things, maybe background noise that they thought sounded like the mother.

2) The assisting officer(s) didn't hear anything, though wanted to make more of a story (for their five minutes of fame) than there was, and so simply made this up.

...Flash, think yourself lucky you got a response from bolly! I've said it before, but I've still not got over her evading my question and ignoring me for it. At least fastzombie - although we disagree - has got the chutzpah to answer a difficult question, or at least admit he can't answer it. That's integrity right there.

As for the miracle bollocks - well fine. So everything that can't be explained by Science is a miracle. Whatever bollocks your heart contends, make it so, call it a miracle. God of the gaps strikes once more.

Anything is possible, if it's a miracle. No doubt I'll grow a miraculous pair of knockers over night, and a miraculous seven-figure bank balance. If the good Lord provides, because apparently, the good Lord pays dividends too, like with the Amish. Sod all to do with economics, it's God.

Yeah. I'm sure religion doesn't distort thinking at all.

That's not discussing - that's just dissing.

It's nice to have you post here, dear Richard. I have missed you! I hope you're doing well and looking forward to a great new year ahead x

Well you don't have to believe that he did. Historians can't say if he did or didn't. So that part is just personal opinion.

I think (cognitively) that it's plausible that Jesus healed people based on their strong connection to him.

Lovely quote

If only I weren't a cynical bastard

Well, I don't have a faith. I would have said it's you that has the faith, an unquestioning faith in the material nature of the world. And it should go without saying that you're limited by it. I don't even recognise any real limitation. I base my disagreement and belief, such as it stands, on experience and reason.

"How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress." Niels Bohr

You do; you just don't recognise it.

Interesting modern miracle account here:

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/mirac...rvention-video

I would say that it wasn't miraculous that the little girl survived because it states the fact that she was held above above the water by the seat belt is the reason she is still alive.

Just don't use Southern Trains (as per thread title).

But seriously. It's hard to believe that in 2016 people still believe in a God, heaven and hell etc.

And if God does exist, he/she did make everyone imperfect sinners. Why, you might ask and he/she does very little to prevent it. So, we still are all dishonest, aggressive, liars, cheats, greedy, exploitative etc. (one or more of the previous) and that's the relatively good aspects we have. Then we have the murderers, serial killers, rapists, paedophiles, war criminals, gangsters, con-artists, corrupt governments that let their own populations starve etc., yet God does little to prevent these things.

Hardly the attributes of a supreme human being, more like a temp office worker.

Yeah and another thing. If God is all powerful, why does he/she always have trouble managing money.

The only thing people should worship is the Sun (maybe Jupiter as well), not a God. You can see the Sun and Jupiter (at least at certain times). Tends to lend to the credibility.