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Old 29-12-2016, 13:07
spiney2
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What do you mean by the existence of evil?

There's nothing to suggest that 'evil' exists as anything other than an adjective of a person's behaviour or thoughts... Or is it why does an all-powerful God design/allow humans to do such things that can be considered 'evil'?
seems u don't see why this is a problem, but it's an old one ......
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Old 29-12-2016, 13:11
spiney2
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Obviously, if there wasn't a ''possibility'' of doing wrong, then we'd be robots ........ then u get into free will, soft vs hard determinism, etc etc, all ground well trodden, many times ..........
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Old 29-12-2016, 13:17
noodkleopatra
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seems u don't see why this is a problem, but it's an old one ......
I think the creation of 'evil' was an understandable way of encouraging good, but alas, just a creation. A bit like Hell as the antithesis to Heaven. That, and a way of trying to explain why 'God' created/allowed humans to be such shitty people at times.
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Old 29-12-2016, 13:23
anne_666
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.

Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife?

And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards?
It really doesn't.
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Old 29-12-2016, 13:35
darkjedimaster
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I don't believe there is Heaven or Hell, or even that that the sky fairy exists. If god does exist then with all the people he has taken this year, has made him quite a bit of a ****.
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Old 29-12-2016, 13:49
Andrue
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Religion only makes sense if you can disconnect the rational, logical part of your brain.

But to my mind any supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being that creates a flawed creature then demands it begs forgiveness or else punishes it for all eternity for things it does wrong during the brief time in which it lives is not worthy of prayer. Such a sadistic entity should be reviled and treated with contempt.

I prefer not to waste too much time with the whole concept anyway. Sky fairies are for children and people who cannot think properly.
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Old 29-12-2016, 14:56
MrQuike
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Religion only makes sense if you can disconnect the rational, logical part of your brain.

But to my mind any supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being that creates a flawed creature then demands it begs forgiveness or else punishes it for all eternity for things it does wrong during the brief time in which it lives is not worthy of prayer. Such a sadistic entity should be reviled and treated with contempt.

I prefer not to waste too much time with the whole concept anyway. Sky fairies are for children and people who cannot think properly.
To make sense of religion just requires effort and logic based on an alternative starting assumption. Disconnecting the rational, logical part of your brain is only required for revelation and posting ignorant nonsense on the internet.
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Old 29-12-2016, 15:19
swingaleg
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My understanding of Christianity is that God did make humans perfect but Adam and Eve gave in to temptation and ate the apple ...........that original sin then became part of the human condition
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Old 29-12-2016, 15:22
Granny McSmith
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It does seem odd that someone who could spend their entire life helping people maybe even dying saving someone wouldn't get in because they are Atheist.

Yet someone who spent their life hurting others is a murder maybe a pedo would get in because they belive.
The nature of God is always to have mercy.
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Old 29-12-2016, 15:24
Granny McSmith
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I don't believe there is Heaven or Hell, or even that that the sky fairy exists. If god does exist then with all the people he has taken this year, has made him quite a bit of a ****.
Have more people died this year than previously? Everyone dies sooner or later.
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:10
droogiefret
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What about people who believe in a different, "wrong" God. Do you really believe they won't go to some 'rewarding' paradise after death if they've lived a good life? If they can, then in the theory of any religion, why wouldn't Atheists?

If Heaven is a members-only club, that's fine, but at least be honest about it.
If there is an afterlife (I say if) - you probably get the afterlife you believe in. If you believe wholeheartedly in annihilation, why be disappointed if that's what you get? (Well ... by definition you won't be disappointed).

As I said - you can't have it both ways.
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:13
Pitman
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my God has given me an automatic pass, I don't even have to commit any terrorist atrocities, I get 80 women waiting for me, and he has assured me they are far from virgins
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:20
anne_666
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my God has given me an automatic pass, I don't even have to commit any terrorist atrocities, I get 80 women waiting for me, and he has assured me they are far from virgins
What's so special about you? When are you off?
You need to skype god and make him show you them before you go anywhere, then get a cast iron guarantee.
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:30
Pitman
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What's so special about you? When are you off?
You need to skype god and make him show you them before you go anywhere, then get a cast iron guarantee.
nothing special, that's just what I believe, Piers Morgan is going to be my butler
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:38
lordOfTime
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.

Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife?

And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards?
That's the gist of it. But Jesus also teaches you to obey a few other things. To love your Neighbour (that's all people) as yourself...Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind soul and strength. Jesus also said sell your possessions and give to the poor. Which is a pretty hard message. Not a lot of people do that do they?

And since humanity is imperfect since sin came into the world after Genesis 2 or however it happened (I don't treat it as historical fact) God had another plan; redemption through Jesus, hence the Easter story.

I'll bite....

#Imaginaryfriend
#buthesmyimaginaryfriend

At least I'm part of a pretty big club of some 2 billion people.
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Old 29-12-2016, 17:39
richclever
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My understanding of Christianity is that God did make humans perfect but Adam and Eve gave in to temptation and ate the apple ...........that original sin then became part of the human condition
Wouldn't that then suggest that they were not created perfect after all. Surely if they were perfect they wouldn't have given into temptation in the first place.
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Old 29-12-2016, 18:33
dorydaryl
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It all sounds a bit dull up there, though...hope someone 'bad' enough gets there to liven things up...
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Old 29-12-2016, 18:37
1fab
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.

Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife?

And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards?
You're maybe looking at it from the wrong perspective. Christianity was invented to explain the human condition, not vice versa.
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:03
swingaleg
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Wouldn't that then suggest that they were not created perfect after all. Surely if they were perfect they wouldn't have given into temptation in the first place.
Well I guess that God also created the apple and the serpent ............so it was bit like Robot Wars

all God's creations couldn't come out unscathed
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:13
anne_666
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nothing special, that's just what I believe, Piers Morgan is going to be my butler
Yes! and Jeremy Clarkson as your chamber maid pleeeease.

I'm going to be Queen of all I survey with Ma Merkel stoking the fires.
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:19
SULLA
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.

Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife?

And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards?
We are not perfect because we have free will. If we didn't have free will we would be like robots
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:23
SULLA
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Which should tell you that believing and repenting are not as simple as some people seem to think.

As for atheists not going to heaven - well you can't have it both ways. Presumably atheists are happy doing something else -
Happy at the moment
they certainly wouldn't want to spend eternity in the presence of an imaginary being.
How would that be possible ?
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:36
Richard46
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We are not perfect because we have free will. If we didn't have free will we would be like robots
So how did a perfect being conceive of anything that was imperfect? What gave 'him' the idea?
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Old 29-12-2016, 19:47
muggins14
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It does seem odd that someone who could spend their entire life helping people maybe even dying saving someone wouldn't get in because they are Atheist.

Yet someone who spent their life hurting others is a murder maybe a pedo would get in because they belive.
My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.

So how did a perfect being conceive of anything that was imperfect? What gave 'him' the idea?
Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story

Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot.
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Old 29-12-2016, 20:06
Richard46
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My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.


Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story

Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot.
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
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