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Getting to Heaven |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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What do you mean by the existence of evil?
There's nothing to suggest that 'evil' exists as anything other than an adjective of a person's behaviour or thoughts... Or is it why does an all-powerful God design/allow humans to do such things that can be considered 'evil'? |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Obviously, if there wasn't a ''possibility'' of doing wrong, then we'd be robots ........ then u get into free will, soft vs hard determinism, etc etc, all ground well trodden, many times ..........
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#28 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ashtray City
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seems u don't see why this is a problem, but it's an old one ......
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#29 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 30,172
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife? And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards? |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Deathstar
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I don't believe there is Heaven or Hell, or even that that the sky fairy exists. If god does exist then with all the people he has taken this year, has made him quite a bit of a ****.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brackley, UK
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Religion only makes sense if you can disconnect the rational, logical part of your brain.
But to my mind any supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being that creates a flawed creature then demands it begs forgiveness or else punishes it for all eternity for things it does wrong during the brief time in which it lives is not worthy of prayer. Such a sadistic entity should be reviled and treated with contempt. I prefer not to waste too much time with the whole concept anyway. Sky fairies are for children and people who cannot think properly. |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,266
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Religion only makes sense if you can disconnect the rational, logical part of your brain.
But to my mind any supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being that creates a flawed creature then demands it begs forgiveness or else punishes it for all eternity for things it does wrong during the brief time in which it lives is not worthy of prayer. Such a sadistic entity should be reviled and treated with contempt. I prefer not to waste too much time with the whole concept anyway. Sky fairies are for children and people who cannot think properly. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,804
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My understanding of Christianity is that God did make humans perfect but Adam and Eve gave in to temptation and ate the apple ...........that original sin then became part of the human condition
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#34 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,066
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It does seem odd that someone who could spend their entire life helping people maybe even dying saving someone wouldn't get in because they are Atheist.
Yet someone who spent their life hurting others is a murder maybe a pedo would get in because they belive. |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,066
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Quote:
I don't believe there is Heaven or Hell, or even that that the sky fairy exists. If god does exist then with all the people he has taken this year, has made him quite a bit of a ****.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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What about people who believe in a different, "wrong" God. Do you really believe they won't go to some 'rewarding' paradise after death if they've lived a good life? If they can, then in the theory of any religion, why wouldn't Atheists?
If Heaven is a members-only club, that's fine, but at least be honest about it. As I said - you can't have it both ways. |
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#37 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
Posts: 16,515
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my God has given me an automatic pass, I don't even have to commit any terrorist atrocities, I get 80 women waiting for me, and he has assured me they are far from virgins
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#38 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 30,172
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my God has given me an automatic pass, I don't even have to commit any terrorist atrocities, I get 80 women waiting for me, and he has assured me they are far from virgins
![]() You need to skype god and make him show you them before you go anywhere, then get a cast iron guarantee. |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
Posts: 16,515
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What's so special about you? When are you off?
You need to skype god and make him show you them before you go anywhere, then get a cast iron guarantee.
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#40 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: County Durham
Posts: 15,061
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Quote:
Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife? And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards? And since humanity is imperfect since sin came into the world after Genesis 2 or however it happened (I don't treat it as historical fact) God had another plan; redemption through Jesus, hence the Easter story. Quote:
I'll bite....
#Imaginaryfriend At least I'm part of a pretty big club of some 2 billion people.
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#41 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,287
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My understanding of Christianity is that God did make humans perfect but Adam and Eve gave in to temptation and ate the apple ...........that original sin then became part of the human condition
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#42 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Getting on with it...
Posts: 12,840
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It all sounds a bit dull up there, though...hope someone 'bad' enough gets there to liven things up...
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#43 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,309
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Quote:
Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife? And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards? |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,804
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Quote:
Wouldn't that then suggest that they were not created perfect after all. Surely if they were perfect they wouldn't have given into temptation in the first place.
all God's creations couldn't come out unscathed |
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 30,172
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nothing special, that's just what I believe, Piers Morgan is going to be my butler
![]() I'm going to be Queen of all I survey with Ma Merkel stoking the fires. |
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#46 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
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Quote:
Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife? And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards? |
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#47 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
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Quote:
Which should tell you that believing and repenting are not as simple as some people seem to think.
As for atheists not going to heaven - well you can't have it both ways. Presumably atheists are happy doing something else - Quote:
they certainly wouldn't want to spend eternity in the presence of an imaginary being.
How would that be possible ?
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#48 |
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 41,688
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Quote:
We are not perfect because we have free will. If we didn't have free will we would be like robots
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#49 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,126
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Quote:
It does seem odd that someone who could spend their entire life helping people maybe even dying saving someone wouldn't get in because they are Atheist.
Yet someone who spent their life hurting others is a murder maybe a pedo would get in because they belive. but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.Quote:
So how did a perfect being conceive of anything that was imperfect? What gave 'him' the idea?
Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story ![]() Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot. |
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#50 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 41,688
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Quote:
My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did
but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story ![]() Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot. |
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but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.