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Old 29-12-2016, 20:22
pianoforte
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The nature of God is always to have mercy.
Tell that to Lot's wife.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:41
Keyser_Soze1
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The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
Which tells you all you need to know about whoever created the all the original religious myths.

It was all about having power over others and it has worked very, very well for millennia.

It still does.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:11
abarthman
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
What about those individuals who for whatever reason are born into an environment where they are never exposed to Christianity for their entire lives (eg, a remote Amazonian tribe) but they live good lives - honest, faithful, charitable, kind to small animals, etc.

Do they not get to go to Heaven? Seems a bit unfair to exclude them just because of the geography of their birthplace.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:20
muggins14
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The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
See, shows what her priest knew, he told her the original sin was sex!
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:27
Keyser_Soze1
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See, shows what her priest knew, he told her the original sin was sex!
But he was a divine conduit to God!

By wearing a black dress, a dog collar and remaining a virgin for all of his life whilst pontificating to everyone else on the subject (or so I hope for the choirboy's sake).
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Old 30-12-2016, 00:46
noodkleopatra
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We are not perfect because we have free will. If we didn't have free will we would be like robots
This is probably my favourite over-used excuse for God.

Wants us to worship him on a certain day in a certain way, follow a long list of rules - some utterly ridiculous, some relating to what one can and can't eat or wear - he wants us to praise his name, apparently behave within the scope of his divinely written Holy ruleBook, and enacts all sorts of punishments on us for disobeying.

But apparently, he doesn't want us to be "robots" who do not think for themselves, so he created freewill.

Doesn't make a lot of sense, but still, it's nice to know we can choose Hell if we so wish.
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Old 30-12-2016, 01:08
Keyser_Soze1
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This is probably my favourite over-used excuse for God.

Wants us to worship him on a certain day in a certain way, follow a long list of rules - some utterly ridiculous, some relating to what one can and can't eat or wear - he wants us to praise his name, apparently behave within the scope of his divinely written Holy ruleBook, and enacts all sorts of punishments on us for disobeying.

But apparently, he doesn't want us to be "robots" who do not think for themselves, so he created freewill.

Doesn't make a lot of sense, but still, it's nice to know we can choose Hell if we so wish.
Rather Hell than an eternal version of North Korea.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x_EvRaW9iq...tes-245601.jpg
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Old 30-12-2016, 06:13
spiney2
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My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.


Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story

Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot.
nowhere, in the bibble, does it say ''the original sin'' was sex. And obviously so. Since, that wd make having children a sin .......
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Old 30-12-2016, 06:17
dee123
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Heaven is as real as Hogwarts or Sesame Street.
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Old 30-12-2016, 06:23
spiney2
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The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
it doesn't say that either .......
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:27
TheEricPollard
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For the lulz, probably.

Have you been watching Songs of Praise?
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:33
DPS
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.

Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife?

And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards?
God did not create sinners, we chose to sin. It's our failure, our disobedience to His law, and our choice to obey our fallen natures, and commit sin.

Adam and Eve were created perfect, but they chose to disobey God. It was this act of disobedience that caused man's nature to become imperfect, sin corrupted human character. From this we are all born with a tendency to want to sin. Jesus lived a perfect life here as a man with a fallen human nature the same as ours, to show us that we could overcome that nature, and live a sinless life. He never sinned. We have all sinned. Our sins have been through choice and giving in to temptation, selfishness, and an unwillingness to obey God, rather, a desire to do what we want instead.

If you repent and accept Jesus, He will help you to overcome sinful ways, and live a sinless life. It will take time, bad habits take years to form and can take years to break, but unless a heart is sin-free, then a person will not be saved. Even if one sin remains in the heart, a person cannot enter into God's presence.

1 John 1:5-10
'This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:41
DPS
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The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
No, the first human sin was disobedience/rebellion. God commanded them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and they disobeyed.

The original sin(s) occurred long before that. This explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:52
Richard46
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No, the first human sin was disobedience/rebellion. God commanded them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and they disobeyed.

The original sin(s) occurred long before that. This explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8
So one can 'sin' before one knows the difference between 'good & evil'? How?

Anyway if God was perfect and he was all there was where did he learn about evil from ?
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Old 30-12-2016, 09:12
DPS
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So one can 'sin' before one knows the difference between 'good & evil'? How?

Anyway if God was perfect and he was all there was where did he learn about evil from ?
A person cannot be held accountable for sin before they know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. They can only sin when they know, and choose to do wrong. For example, a two-year-old child can 'steal' a toy from another child - is the child sinning? Yes. Will they be held accountable for it? No. Why? Because they're too young to understand the concept of stealing. When they're old enough to understand that stealing is wrong, then they're accountable if they steal something. The age of accountability varies from person to person, only God knows exactly when we begin to wilfully sin.

Regarding Adam and Eve's first sin, they knew God's law, they knew they'd been told not to eat from the tree, and they'd been warned that if they did eat, they'd die. So they knew right from wrong. God had given them clear instruction, and informed them of the consequences of disobedience. They chose to do wrong, they chose to commit the first human sin.

God is perfect. He didn't have to learn anything, everything has always been known to Him.

1 John 3:20
'For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.'

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ows-All-Things
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Old 30-12-2016, 10:51
Richard46
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A person cannot be held accountable for sin before they know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. They can only sin when they know, and choose to do wrong. For example, a two-year-old child can 'steal' a toy from another child - is the child sinning? Yes. Will they be held accountable for it? No. Why? Because they're too young to understand the concept of stealing. When they're old enough to understand that stealing is wrong, then they're accountable if they steal something. The age of accountability varies from person to person, only God knows exactly when we begin to wilfully sin.

Regarding Adam and Eve's first sin, they knew God's law, they knew they'd been told not to eat from the tree, and they'd been warned that if they did eat, they'd die. So they knew right from wrong. God had given them clear instruction, and informed them of the consequences of disobedience. They chose to do wrong, they chose to commit the first human sin.

God is perfect. He didn't have to learn anything, everything has always been known to Him.

1 John 3:20
'For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.'

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ows-All-Things
I will leave it there; no business of mine how others define their Gods and their sins.

But Happy New Year
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:11
noodkleopatra
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''...Because the Bible tells me so..."
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:56
1fab
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See, shows what her priest knew, he told her the original sin was sex!
Oops!

God bleddy loves sex.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:03
DPS
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What about those individuals who for whatever reason are born into an environment where they are never exposed to Christianity for their entire lives (eg, a remote Amazonian tribe) but they live good lives - honest, faithful, charitable, kind to small animals, etc.

Do they not get to go to Heaven? Seems a bit unfair to exclude them just because of the geography of their birthplace.
People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.

But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:27
belly button
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People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.

But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that.
No one needs saving because Jesus died for all our sins surely. Therefore there is no sin.
My interpretation of Christian teachings would be that we are all already saved.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:15
spiney2
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"all already saved'' is Universalism. Which folks can look up on wikipedia, if they want to. But, if this doctrine is true, then why all the religious panic about ''saving'' people? Certainly, jesus didn't think universalism is true, he said that salvation is conditional ........
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:21
spiney2
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People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.

But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that.
a problem with The Ontological Argument (for god's existence), is, some of god's predicates conflict with other ones. So u get infinite justice, plus infinite mercy, conflicting directly. To which, The Incarnation is one possible solution .........
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:27
spiney2
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Standard christian doctrine is, all hav sinned, therefore, all require salvation. There are various other doctrines which supposedly deal with this, eg, like ''the harrowing of hell'', and roman catholic ''limbo'' (which the pope recently abolished), etc, etc .......
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:34
Richard46
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Standard christian doctrine is, all hav sinned, therefore, all require salvation. There are various doctrines which supposedly deal with this, eg, like ''the harrowing of hell'', and roman catholic ''limbo'' (which the pope recently abolished), etc, etc .......
Surely it is that we are all born in original sin which is not quite the same thing as 'all have sinned'. i.e. even a blameless new born is in this state of sin.

Or some such,, but what do I know.?
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:04
belly button
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"all already saved'' is Universalism. Which folks can look up on wikipedia, if they want to. But, if this doctrine is true, then why all the religious panic about ''saving'' people? Certainly, jesus didn't think universalism is true, he said that salvation is conditional ........
I don't think salvation can have anything to do with judgement or conditions. Unconditional love would be where it's at .

'"Which of the two obeyed his father?" They replied, "The first." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I tell you the truth, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.'
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