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Getting to Heaven |
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#51 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 574
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Quote:
The nature of God is always to have mercy.
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#52 |
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Sixth Circle of Hell
Posts: 20,165
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Quote:
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
It was all about having power over others and it has worked very, very well for millennia. It still does. |
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#53 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 7,820
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Do they not get to go to Heaven? Seems a bit unfair to exclude them just because of the geography of their birthplace. |
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#54 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,126
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Quote:
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
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#55 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Sixth Circle of Hell
Posts: 20,165
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Quote:
See, shows what her priest knew, he told her the original sin was sex!
By wearing a black dress, a dog collar and remaining a virgin for all of his life whilst pontificating to everyone else on the subject (or so I hope for the choirboy's sake). |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ashtray City
Posts: 4,721
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We are not perfect because we have free will. If we didn't have free will we would be like robots
Wants us to worship him on a certain day in a certain way, follow a long list of rules - some utterly ridiculous, some relating to what one can and can't eat or wear - he wants us to praise his name, apparently behave within the scope of his divinely written Holy ruleBook, and enacts all sorts of punishments on us for disobeying. But apparently, he doesn't want us to be "robots" who do not think for themselves, so he created freewill. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but still, it's nice to know we can choose Hell if we so wish. |
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#57 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Sixth Circle of Hell
Posts: 20,165
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This is probably my favourite over-used excuse for God.
Wants us to worship him on a certain day in a certain way, follow a long list of rules - some utterly ridiculous, some relating to what one can and can't eat or wear - he wants us to praise his name, apparently behave within the scope of his divinely written Holy ruleBook, and enacts all sorts of punishments on us for disobeying. But apparently, he doesn't want us to be "robots" who do not think for themselves, so he created freewill. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but still, it's nice to know we can choose Hell if we so wish. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x_EvRaW9iq...tes-245601.jpg |
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#58 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did
but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story ![]() Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot. |
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#59 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 22,422
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Heaven is as real as Hogwarts or Sesame Street.
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#60 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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Quote:
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
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#61 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 'Dales
Posts: 9,623
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For the lulz, probably.
Have you been watching Songs of Praise? |
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#62 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,125
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Christianity teaches that you can only get to heaven if you accept that you are a sinner (ie imperfect) and trust Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to pay the price for it. Then God will accept you.
Makes me wonder - if God knew this, why did he make everyone imperfect (sinners) in the first place then? He knew they would be unable to be perfect. Is it because there would be too many in the afterlife? And if you do accept Jesus, then how good do you have to be afterwards? Adam and Eve were created perfect, but they chose to disobey God. It was this act of disobedience that caused man's nature to become imperfect, sin corrupted human character. From this we are all born with a tendency to want to sin. Jesus lived a perfect life here as a man with a fallen human nature the same as ours, to show us that we could overcome that nature, and live a sinless life. He never sinned. We have all sinned. Our sins have been through choice and giving in to temptation, selfishness, and an unwillingness to obey God, rather, a desire to do what we want instead. If you repent and accept Jesus, He will help you to overcome sinful ways, and live a sinless life. It will take time, bad habits take years to form and can take years to break, but unless a heart is sin-free, then a person will not be saved. Even if one sin remains in the heart, a person cannot enter into God's presence. 1 John 1:5-10 'This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8 |
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#63 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,125
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Quote:
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
The original sin(s) occurred long before that. This explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8 |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 41,688
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No, the first human sin was disobedience/rebellion. God commanded them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and they disobeyed.
The original sin(s) occurred long before that. This explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQmLVU_nvo8 Anyway if God was perfect and he was all there was where did he learn about evil from ? |
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#65 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,125
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So one can 'sin' before one knows the difference between 'good & evil'? How?
Anyway if God was perfect and he was all there was where did he learn about evil from ? Regarding Adam and Eve's first sin, they knew God's law, they knew they'd been told not to eat from the tree, and they'd been warned that if they did eat, they'd die. So they knew right from wrong. God had given them clear instruction, and informed them of the consequences of disobedience. They chose to do wrong, they chose to commit the first human sin. God is perfect. He didn't have to learn anything, everything has always been known to Him. 1 John 3:20 'For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.' https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ows-All-Things |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 41,688
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A person cannot be held accountable for sin before they know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong. They can only sin when they know, and choose to do wrong. For example, a two-year-old child can 'steal' a toy from another child - is the child sinning? Yes. Will they be held accountable for it? No. Why? Because they're too young to understand the concept of stealing. When they're old enough to understand that stealing is wrong, then they're accountable if they steal something. The age of accountability varies from person to person, only God knows exactly when we begin to wilfully sin.
Regarding Adam and Eve's first sin, they knew God's law, they knew they'd been told not to eat from the tree, and they'd been warned that if they did eat, they'd die. So they knew right from wrong. God had given them clear instruction, and informed them of the consequences of disobedience. They chose to do wrong, they chose to commit the first human sin. God is perfect. He didn't have to learn anything, everything has always been known to Him. 1 John 3:20 'For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.' https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...ows-All-Things But Happy New Year
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#67 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ashtray City
Posts: 4,721
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''...Because the Bible tells me so..."
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#68 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,309
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Quote:
See, shows what her priest knew, he told her the original sin was sex!
God bleddy loves sex. |
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#69 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,125
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Quote:
What about those individuals who for whatever reason are born into an environment where they are never exposed to Christianity for their entire lives (eg, a remote Amazonian tribe) but they live good lives - honest, faithful, charitable, kind to small animals, etc.
Do they not get to go to Heaven? Seems a bit unfair to exclude them just because of the geography of their birthplace. But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that. |
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#70 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Is there life on Mars
Posts: 5,364
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Quote:
People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.
But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that. My interpretation of Christian teachings would be that we are all already saved. |
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#71 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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"all already saved'' is Universalism. Which folks can look up on wikipedia, if they want to. But, if this doctrine is true, then why all the religious panic about ''saving'' people? Certainly, jesus didn't think universalism is true, he said that salvation is conditional ........
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#72 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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Quote:
People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.
But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that. |
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#73 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
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Standard christian doctrine is, all hav sinned, therefore, all require salvation. There are various other doctrines which supposedly deal with this, eg, like ''the harrowing of hell'', and roman catholic ''limbo'' (which the pope recently abolished), etc, etc .......
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#74 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 41,688
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Quote:
Standard christian doctrine is, all hav sinned, therefore, all require salvation. There are various doctrines which supposedly deal with this, eg, like ''the harrowing of hell'', and roman catholic ''limbo'' (which the pope recently abolished), etc, etc .......
Or some such,, but what do I know.?
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#75 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Is there life on Mars
Posts: 5,364
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Quote:
"all already saved'' is Universalism. Which folks can look up on wikipedia, if they want to. But, if this doctrine is true, then why all the religious panic about ''saving'' people? Certainly, jesus didn't think universalism is true, he said that salvation is conditional ........
'"Which of the two obeyed his father?" They replied, "The first." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I tell you the truth, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.' |
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but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.