|
||||||||
Getting to Heaven |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#76 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 30,172
|
Quote:
People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.
But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#77 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,902
|
Im too old to believe in fairy stories.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#78 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,277
|
Been through heaven several times on an airplane. Unsurprisingly I didn't see any deceased people with wings sitting around on clouds. Maybe I just keep being there when there was a big game on and they had all gone down the pub?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#79 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: County Durham
Posts: 15,061
|
|
|
|
|
|
#80 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,696
|
Im an atheist but if god and heaven exist, let god judge me as i stand.
Ive taken my life, and ive lived it to the best of my ability. If thats not enough god can **** right off..... |
|
|
|
|
|
#81 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
Posts: 16,515
|
Quote:
Im an atheist but if god and heaven exist, let god judge me as i stand.
Ive taken my life, and ive lived it to the best of my ability. If thats not enough god can **** right off.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
#82 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19,566
|
Quote:
Im too old to believe in fairy stories.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#83 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,696
|
Quote:
if you do end up getting an interview, I'd be a bit more polite if I were you
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#84 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Is there life on Mars
Posts: 5,364
|
Quote:
Will it be like an employee evaluation?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#85 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
Posts: 16,515
|
make sure you take your autograph book, the waiting room is full of celebs at the moment
![]() ETA : I am joking, I am sure you are not about to die
|
|
|
|
|
|
#86 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
|
Quote:
So how did a perfect being conceive of anything that was imperfect? What gave 'him' the idea?
Quote:
My Mum always said that God didn't see religion, he saw good and bad and chose the good to take into heaven, whether they believed in heaven or God or not was irrelevant. She said God didn't write the bible, people did
but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.Mum also said that God created man in his own image, it was woman that led him astray Mind you, without the original sin (sex) there'd be no other people created, which would have been a very short story ![]() Mum was brought up Catholic but brought us all up with no religious leanings whatsoever, but we did used to talk about it a lot. ![]() Quote:
The original sin is not sex but knowledge.
Quote:
This is probably my favourite over-used excuse for God.
Wants us to worship him on a certain day in a certain way, follow a long list of rules - some utterly ridiculous, some relating to what one can and can't eat or wear - he wants us to praise his name, apparently behave within the scope of his divinely written Holy ruleBook, and enacts all sorts of punishments on us for disobeying. Quote:
1 John 1:5-10 'This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.' Quote:
So one can 'sin' before one knows the difference between 'good & evil'? How?
Quote:
No one needs saving because Jesus died for all our sins surely. Therefore there is no sin.
My interpretation of Christian teachings would be that we are all already saved. Quote:
Surely it is that we are all born in original sin which is not quite the same thing as 'all have sinned'. i.e. even a blameless new born is in this state of sin.
Or some such,, but what do I know.? ![]() Quote:
Im too old to believe in fairy stories.
Quote:
Im an atheist but if god and heaven exist, let god judge me as i stand.
Ive taken my life, and ive lived it to the best of my ability. If thats not enough god can **** right off..... Quote:
if you do end up getting an interview, I'd be a bit more polite if I were you
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#87 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: looking for tinned loganberrie
Posts: 17,496
|
Quote:
People will be judged on whether they live according to the light they've been given. All people have been given some light, some people a little, and others a lot. If a person has never heard of Jesus or had any exposure to organised religion before they die, they won't be lost because of it. If they've lived their life according to the light that God gave them, they'll be saved.
But if a person has had the opportunity to get to know God and not taken it for whatever reason, then they will be judged on that. After much study and deliberation, the chief approached the missionary and thanked him for his time - but announced that he had decided to remain true to his tribal gods. The missionary said he was very sorry, especially since it meant that the chief, having rejected Jesus as saviour, would now be cast out and condemned to hell when he died. 'Was I always going to be condemned?' asked the chief. 'No - I know you to be a good man and, had you never heard about Jesus, and never rejected him, then I am sure you would be accepted into heaven.' replied the missionary. 'Then why did you tell me in the first place?' |
|
|
|
|
|
#88 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 650
|
What did people do before Jesus lived? Surely the premise of Jesus as humanity's saviour is a bit flawed. Surely Jesus would have to be born at the start of humanity? How can people follow Jesus's doctrine if they were born and died before Jesus was born?
See, the logic to Jesus makes no sense. Fine, if you're born AFTER Jesus, but the logic is screwed up if you were born BEFORE Jesus appeared on Earth! Also the concept of Jesus as God's son is inherently sexist. Surely a God would have made God's daughter and delivered her to Earth. I've never heard of the female equivalent of Jesus! Once you examine all religion it falls apart. Still, if you want to believe in it, fair enough. |
|
|
|
|
|
#89 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
|
That's drivel. If original sin is inherited, then those who inherit the consequences of it need salvation, but, they don't newly disobey god's direct command just for the heck of it. More like a disease, you'll die without treatment .......
|
|
|
|
|
|
#90 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,537
|
If there is life after death then you have to consider the logistics.
Assuming the majority of people have least lives good enough to warrant entry into heaven, say a 75/25 ratio then heaven needs to be big enough to take 75% of all people who have ever existed. What are communities in heaven based on? Families over hundreds of generations or peer groups of friends/relations for a specific period of time? Who manages and organises this? What happens to people who die who are second/third partners. Can you imagine trying to manage those complex relationships in heaven? It will be like an episode of Jeremy Kyle and that's before you add in the in-laws and other toxic mixes in family and friends. Are pets allowed into heaven? If so then that adds billions of dogs, cats, birds etc to manage too. How does St Peter manage the entry to heaven by himself given that there are thousands of people trying to gain entry every day? Will there be illegal immigrants who manage to slip in undetected? Is there a right to appeal if you consider you have been unfairly condemned to hell? Whats the process? What do you actually do in heaven? Unless there is a process and structure you have billions of people with nothing to do, who be no goals and aspirations, where everything is given to them without working for it. Sounds like a perfect mix for under achievement, dissafection and insurrection due to boredom. Is it just me or when you look at the logistics does heaven seem a utopian pipe dream that would be unrealistic to manage on a practical level? |
|
|
|
|
|
#91 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: looking for tinned loganberrie
Posts: 17,496
|
Quote:
If there is life after death then you have to consider the logistics.
Assuming the majority of people have least lives good enough to warrant entry into heaven, say a 75/25 ratio then heaven needs to be big enough to take 75% of all people who have ever existed. What are communities in heaven based on? Families over hundreds of generations or peer groups of friends/relations for a specific period of time? Who manages and organises this? What happens to people who die who are second/third partners. Can you imagine trying to manage those complex relationships in heaven? It will be like an episode of Jeremy Kyle and that's before you add in the in-laws and other toxic mixes in family and friends. Are pets allowed into heaven? If so then that adds billions of dogs, cats, birds etc to manage too. How does St Peter manage the entry to heaven by himself given that there are thousands of people trying to gain entry every day? Will there be illegal immigrants who manage to slip in undetected? Is there a right to appeal if you consider you have been unfairly condemned to hell? Whats the process? What do you actually do in heaven? Unless there is a process and structure you have billions of people with nothing to do, who be no goals and aspirations, where everything is given to them without working for it. Sounds like a perfect mix for under achievement, dissafection and insurrection due to boredom. Is it just me or when you look at the logistics does heaven seem a utopian pipe dream that would be unrealistic to manage on a practical level? |
|
|
|
|
|
#92 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Sixth Circle of Hell
Posts: 20,165
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#93 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: East London
Posts: 25,845
|
Quote:
If there is life after death then you have to consider the logistics.
Assuming the majority of people have least lives good enough to warrant entry into heaven, say a 75/25 ratio then heaven needs to be big enough to take 75% of all people who have ever existed. What are communities in heaven based on? Families over hundreds of generations or peer groups of friends/relations for a specific period of time? Who manages and organises this? What happens to people who die who are second/third partners. Can you imagine trying to manage those complex relationships in heaven? It will be like an episode of Jeremy Kyle and that's before you add in the in-laws and other toxic mixes in family and friends. Are pets allowed into heaven? If so then that adds billions of dogs, cats, birds etc to manage too. How does St Peter manage the entry to heaven by himself given that there are thousands of people trying to gain entry every day? Will there be illegal immigrants who manage to slip in undetected? Is there a right to appeal if you consider you have been unfairly condemned to hell? Whats the process? What do you actually do in heaven? Unless there is a process and structure you have billions of people with nothing to do, who be no goals and aspirations, where everything is given to them without working for it. Sounds like a perfect mix for under achievement, dissafection and insurrection due to boredom. Is it just me or when you look at the logistics does heaven seem a utopian pipe dream that would be unrealistic to manage on a practical level? |
|
|
|
|
|
#94 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 24,095
|
Quote:
According to the Bible, Heaven is a square shaped city made of pure translucent gold and 1400 miles wide/long and 1400 miles tall, with walls made of jasper 200 feet thick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#95 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Sixth Circle of Hell
Posts: 20,165
|
Quote:
According to the Bible, Heaven is a square shaped city made of pure translucent gold and 1400 miles wide/long and 1400 miles tall, with walls made of jasper 200 feet thick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#96 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
|
Quote:
There was once a missionary in Africa who spent months teaching the local chief about Jesus' saving grace in the hope of converting him and his tribe.
After much study and deliberation, the chief approached the missionary and thanked him for his time - but announced that he had decided to remain true to his tribal gods. The missionary said he was very sorry, especially since it meant that the chief, having rejected Jesus as saviour, would now be cast out and condemned to hell when he died. 'Was I always going to be condemned?' asked the chief. 'No - I know you to be a good man and, had you never heard about Jesus, and never rejected him, then I am sure you would be accepted into heaven.' replied the missionary. 'Then why did you tell me in the first place?' Quote:
What did people do before Jesus lived? Surely the premise of Jesus as humanity's saviour is a bit flawed. Surely Jesus would have to be born at the start of humanity? How can people follow Jesus's doctrine if they were born and died before Jesus was born?
Quote:
Also the concept of Jesus as God's son is inherently sexist. Surely a God would have made God's daughter and delivered her to Earth. I've never heard of the female equivalent of Jesus!
Jesus was male as people would take more notice of a male. Quote:
If there is life after death then you have to consider the logistics.
Assuming the majority of people have least lives good enough to warrant entry into heaven, say a 75/25 ratio then heaven needs to be big enough to take 75% of all people who have ever existed. Quote:
What are communities in heaven based on? Families over hundreds of generations or peer groups of friends/relations for a specific period of time? Who manages and organises this?
Everyone is a spiritQuote:
What happens to people who die who are second/third partners. Can you imagine trying to manage those complex relationships in heaven? It will be like an episode of Jeremy Kyle and that's before you add in the in-laws and other toxic mixes in family and friends.
Have you not heard the expression " Till death us do part " ? Quote:
Are pets allowed into heaven? If so then that adds billions of dogs, cats, birds etc to manage too.
Old Shep has a wonderful home
|
|
|
|
|
|
#97 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: The North!
Posts: 2,177
|
I stopped believing in God when I was about 5. I just don't understand how people can reconcile the virgin birth, someone coming back to life, someone parting the red sea, a plague of locusts and someone with an amazing technicoloured dreamcoat as things that actually happened.
Do you not think more than one book would be talking about those things if they'd actually happened? Why is it we have loads of proof about Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome etc which all happened before most of the stuff in the bible, but not a shred of evidence that any of the events of the bible happened? The only true thing in the bible was that there was a preacher called Jesus. He didn't perform miracles or come back to life though, nor was he a virgin birth or the Son of God. I've always said that thousands of years ago someone forgot to put in the "This Book is a Work of Fiction" page into the bible but by the time they'd realised it was too late to change it. |
|
|
|
|
|
#98 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,696
|
Quote:
Sounds almost exactly like Hull.
Heaven hasnt got that ![]()
|
|
|
|
|
|
#99 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: East London
Posts: 25,845
|
Quote:
Sounds almost exactly like Hull.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#100 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,696
|
Quote:
No, but in Hull the people are very thick.
![]() .... If it wasnt for the fact that most people in the city judge 'culture' of the speed and quality of its paving. |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56.





but God would have been more open-minded and cared for all people whether they believed in him or not.