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Gina Miller hates democracy |
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#301 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,218
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Most politicians are saying that the EU is the bee's knees. Most politicians have to compromise, in a democracy I would expect no less.
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#302 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,746
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I'm saying that the populous have the right to challenge the method and detail of the withdrawal, and not to give the government or the PM a blank cheque.
Which is what is happening here. |
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#303 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,592
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What is the point of a vote after the negotiations are complete? We leave the EU two years after triggering A50, whether we've agreed to a deal or not. She could negotiate the worse deal on Earth that pleases no one and voting against it will just mean the chaos of no deal at all when we leave, and probably 1000 court cases being launched to challenge anything anyone tries to do. Utter madness.
I didn't mention Stalin. There are many flavours of dictatorships. It will be Tory deal / UKIP not supporting deal just wanting to fall out of EU / other parties wanting to untrigger A50 so that we stay in or get a better deal. Likely vote of no confidence in Tory government to put options to British public at general election. |
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#304 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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I did not ask you that, i did not ask about the EU. I asked . Do you believe David Davis is a trustworthy and honest and will stick by what he believes ?
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#305 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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I disagree, I think Parliament should be supreme, I don't want to be more like Switzerland.
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#306 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,490
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Quote:
Most politicians are saying that the EU is the bee's knees. Most politicians have to compromise, in a democracy I would expect no less.
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#307 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,490
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No parliament is supreme because it draws that power from the electorate. It is the electorate that lend that sovereignty to parliament to act in the best interests of the electorate. That is why any act by Parliament to dilute or change the sovereignty of the electorate should seek the permission of the electorate to do so. That has always been the way until the the EEC arrived.
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#308 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,812
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Quote:
Most politicians are saying that the EU is the bee's knees. Most politicians have to compromise, in a democracy I would expect no less.
voting against what they may (or may not) believe is in the national interest. The vast majority of them will be perfectly aware that measures such as tax hikes and spending cuts are rarely ones that a majority of the electorate support yet frequently in the national interest. |
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#309 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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I answered, he may compromise in his beliefs as every politician did who did not want to join the EU in the first place. Trustworthy and honest? I have no reason to believe he is less trustworthy and honest than most and have reason to believe he is more trustworthy and honest than many.
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#310 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,372
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Is that because you don't like outright lies being pointed out to you?
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Can you explain your legal background in thinking this, as you are obviously an experienced legal mind with extensive knowledge of parliamentary law?
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Because he's a sniveling git?
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When was this plan agreed, if there were no plans on the table?
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It shouldn't be, and it won't be. However, even though Brexit means Brexit and is red, white and blue, no-one actually knows what Brexit involves.
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They have the right to vote against an advisory referendum, as it is only advisory. However, it is unlikely they will ignore the advice.
If, as you say, Parliament are unlikely to vote against the public, as the PM / government have said all along, they will present the new proposed EU relationship to Parliament for ratification prior to any agreement with the EU and therefore I see no need for the legal challenge on this specific issue. Total waste of public money. Quote:
Do you think MPs should just hand over all decision making to May (who became PM on the say so of fewer then 200 Tory MPs) on everything?
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#311 |
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i don't think any politician has said that.
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#312 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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are you just making stuff up?
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#313 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,372
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1. What law?
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2. Maybe so, but until it is changed it requires Parliament to overturn an act, in this case the 1972 Act.
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#314 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wiltshire
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Parliament is sovereign, not the people. That goes for all issues unless parliament explicitly binds itself to the outcome of a referendum.
It didn't in this case. One of many oversights in the enabling legislation. |
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#315 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,372
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Sorry, but you are going to have to remind me what it was.
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#316 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,483
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So Parliament can act against the will of the people? I thought Parliament was created in its current form to represent the people, not oppress them?
They are elected to govern - the clue is in the name. Referendums are advisory as has been pointed out, but it would be a suicidal government that ignored the result. The activity in the High Courts is not about ignoring the referendum. Its about making sure that it happens legally so that it can't be challenged later. Parliament fell down badly when it framed the referendum bill. It is fairly common for poor legislation to be clarified later in the courts. And that is what is happening here. All the drama and hyperbole whipped up by some parts of the press is from ignorance. Journalists are not constitutional lawyers. Oppression is a very real problem in some countries. Not in ours. |
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#317 |
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Location: Wiltshire
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Because he decided that we should leave but that he wasn't the person to do it.
None of that affects the law one iota. |
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#318 |
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Yet another attempt to avoid answering my question. He didn't change his mind and join the Leave camp. From what I'm being told on this forum he had every right to disregard the outcome of the referendum and soldier on against public opinion. Why didn't he do that? After all we are learning that it was only an advisory referendum.
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#319 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,483
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Yet another attempt to avoid answering my question. He didn't change his mind and join the Leave camp. From what I'm being told on this forum he had every right to disregard the outcome of the referendum and soldier on against public opinion. Why didn't he do that? After all we are learning that it was only an advisory referendum.
that is needed between the voters and parliament.And I reckon he knew he had screwed up big time and didn't have a fekkin clue about implementing the outcome. Not a clue. |
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#320 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
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Please elaborate on how this specific slogan is a lie? 'We send the EU £350M a week.
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#321 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
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Ask niceguy1966...
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If this is the legal situation then as PM I would quickly and simply create a bill stating only, and without any qualification, that Parliament overturn the 1972 Act. This should have been rushed through Parliament as soon as the legal challenge was made. This will put challenge Parliament to fall in line with the people who elected them and demonstrate what a complete ass and waste of money this situation is. Should Parliament do the unthinkable then a constitutional crises looms. |
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#322 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,482
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Quote:
So Parliament can act against the will of the people? I thought Parliament was created in its current form to represent the people, not oppress them?
It's the Parliamentary democracy we have instead of the endless Coalitions they often have in systems where the MPs better represent the electorate. |
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#323 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,372
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If the SC rules that, under our constitution, a decision on whether or not we leave the EU is entirely up to Parliament then we clearly would not have a "constitutional crisis" should Parliament make such a decision (and irrespective of what it so decides).
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In fact, the SC ruling may well bring our "constitutional crisis" to an end as it will establish what the correct procedure should be. And, it should be noted that our leading Leave politicians literally had decades in which they could have brought legislation to Parliament in which a procedure for leaving the EU could have been voted upon which would have made the job of the SC much simpler and saved everyone the current court cases.
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#324 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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No, they didn't vote for that. That may have been what some wanted but it wasn't on the ballot paper. And I'm sure there's plenty of leavers who'd like enough "delay" to thrash out a proper deal with the EU.
May must press the button now and everyone should talk while the clock is running. Better still, as a so called expert on international law explained it, there is no need to invoke article 51 and it's 2 year negotiation period, the UK could leave tomorrow. If true, that would certainly focus everyone rather than procrastinate until the next global extinction... |
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#325 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,483
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MPs are not elected to represent peoples' views.
That has never been the case in the UK. They are elected to represent their constituents best interests, and if they win the general election, to act in the nation's best interests. They aren't and never have been puppets. |
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that is needed between the voters and parliament.