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Do you write off an artist if they made their mark on a talent show?


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Old 30-12-2016, 20:14
SweetHeartHolly
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One of my least favorite singers is from American Idol, but them being from the show is not my reason for walking away from them. Scotty McCreery and Lauren Alaina are from that show too and in my opinion, they are two of the standouts where the new country music crop is concerned.

God bless you and them always!!!

Holly
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:26
Soupietwist
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It can take a while before a song is called a classic. But these are good pop songs.

Girls Aloud 'Sound of the Underground' and 'Biology'
Leona Lewis 'Bleeding Love'
One Direction 'What Makes you Beautiful'. "Story of My Life'
Diana Vickers 'Once'
Liberty X 'Just a Little'
JLS 'Beat Again'
Rebecca Ferguson 'Nothing's Real But Love'
Little Mix 'Black Magic'
Ella Henderson 'Ghost'
Will Young 'Leave Right Now'
Most of these songs are written by professional hit makers, they would most likely exist in some form or other without reality show stars to promote them.
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Old 30-12-2016, 22:35
mgvsmith
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Most of these songs are written by professional hit makers, they would most likely exist in some form or other without reality show stars to promote them.
Most of them were written with the artist in mind and on hand. And the question was whether the poster had heard any good music from a talent show artist. So the answer is yes, then?
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Old 31-12-2016, 07:56
mushymanrob
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Most of them were written with the artist in mind and on hand. And the question was whether the poster had heard any good music from a talent show artist. So the answer is yes, then?
depends what qualifies as 'good' music... there has been some good pop though.
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Old 31-12-2016, 08:04
Soupietwist
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Most of them were written with the artist in mind and on hand.
How do you know this? There is a modern history of songs being passed from artist to artist till someone records it.

As for the quality. I think 'Ghost' is a good song. The rest of a mishmash of utterly forgettable or wasted potential.
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Old 31-12-2016, 08:19
mgvsmith
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How do you know this? There is a modern history of songs being passed from artist to artist till someone records it.
Why does this even matter? Do you think 'hitmakers' can't write good songs?


As for the quality. I think 'Ghost' is a good song. The rest of a mishmash of utterly forgettable or wasted potential.
This is where this taste/quality is entirely subjective argument comes in and you only have to accept that someone thinks it's good.

'Ghost' like other songs on the list was co-written, in this between Ella, Ryan Tedder and other 'hitmakers', does that diminish it in any way? If one song meets your quality threshold, does that not prove my contention?
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:07
Soupietwist
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Why does this even matter? Do you think 'hitmakers' can't write good songs?
i was questioning how you knew these songs were written with the artist in mind and on hand. Why does that matter? i presume to make such a claim you have some inside information, and it's down to you to explain.

Do I think hit makers can write good songs? Yeah of course they can. More often than not they keep things safe - make something vaguely catchy that plays to the strengths of what is currently in vogue chart wise. Basically giving someone something easily digestible to capitalise on while they are still in the public eye.
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:24
unique
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I haven't been to Butlins, I think Haven are more popular these days, but I can safely say that Beyonce, Christina Aguilera, Usher, Alanis Morrisette, Miranda Lambert, Carrie Underwood and Jennifer Hudson haven't played there recently. I think between them they have produced some 'significant music' and all of them have been involved in talent shows.

U2 were helped by winning a talent show in Limerick run by the Evening Press in 1978, not televised but how many rock groups got their first break in a Battle of the Bands competition?
i think you partly prove my point by having to mention acts that weren't on tv talent shows

can you name the shows and the records of "musical significance" for the acts highlighted in bold above?

in a nutshell you are scraping the barrel. beyonces fame wasn't the result of being on a tv talent show, neither was u2, nor christina aguilera or alanis morrisette. carrie underwood and jennifer hudsons fame directly is, but what records of musical significance have they released?

and out of the artists listed in bold, how many of them have you personally purchased either singles or albums by - not various artist compilations?
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:28
unique
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So you think Kelly Clarkson is crap then........
from memory i couldn't name a kelly clarkson song, nevermind an album

personally i consider that a good thing
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:47
DJW13
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i think you partly prove my point by having to mention acts that weren't on tv talent shows

can you name the shows and the records of "musical significance" for the acts highlighted in bold above?

in a nutshell you are scraping the barrel. beyonces fame wasn't the result of being on a tv talent show, neither was u2, nor christina aguilera or alanis morrisette. carrie underwood and jennifer hudsons fame directly is, but what records of musical significance have they released?

and out of the artists listed in bold, how many of them have you personally purchased either singles or albums by - not various artist compilations?
I have no idea how to measure "musical significance" but Carrie Underwood has sold millions of albums and received many awards.

7 Grammy Awards, 17 Billboard Music Awards, 12 Academy of Country Music Awards, 11 American Music Awards, 7 Country Music Association Awards, and a Guinness World Record.

Of course, if you don't rate country music you may not appreciate her achievements.
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:55
unique
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I have no idea how to measure "musical significance" but Carrie Underwood has sold millions of albums and received many awards.

7 Grammy Awards, 17 Billboard Music Awards, 12 Academy of Country Music Awards, 11 American Music Awards, 7 Country Music Association Awards, and a Guinness World Record.

Of course, if you don't rate country music you may not appreciate her achievements.
those are acheivements. i asked someone else to name a record that THEY - not you, considered of "musical signficance"

fame and success and sales are a different thing entirely. there is no question regarding success, popularity or sales

now why don't you let that poster answer the question without any more interuptions? surely they have their own thoughts and opinions
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:00
DJW13
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those are acheivements. i asked someone else to name a record that THEY - not you, considered of "musical signficance"

fame and success and sales are a different thing entirely. there is no question regarding success, popularity or sales

now why don't you let that poster answer the question without any more interuptions? surely they have their own thoughts and opinions
Sorry to interrupt a private conversation. It's a shame there isn't a way to hold private conversations on a public forum - there should be a way to have Private Messages.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:12
mgvsmith
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i think you partly prove my point by having to mention acts that weren't on tv talent shows

can you name the shows and the records of "musical significance" for the acts highlighted in bold above?

in a nutshell you are scraping the barrel. beyonces fame wasn't the result of being on a tv talent show, neither was u2, nor christina aguilera or alanis morrisette. carrie underwood and jennifer hudsons fame directly is, but what records of musical significance have they released?

and out of the artists listed in bold, how many of them have you personally purchased either singles or albums by - not various artist compilations?
Beyoncé, Aguilera, Usher, Morrisette were all on Star Search. Underwood and Hudson were on American Idol, Lambert was on Nashville Star. It was all part of the process of becoming better performers and better musicians, Beyoncé performed in a group and later became famous in a group.

It would be hard to get agreement on 'musical significance' as you and the other poster know. But Girls Aloud won Popstars:The Rivals and 'Sound of the Underground' is credited with influencing British pop mid 2000s, so how significant do you want? It was also a very successful record.

I would like to hear your definition of musically significant by the way?

I have the last three albums by Queen Bey, Morrisette's 'Jagged Little Pill', Carrie Underwood's 'Blown Away' and Lambert's 'The Weight of These Wings' in downloads. I listen to most of my music on Spotify anyway. So What? They are all musically significant to me!
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:20
mgvsmith
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Sorry to interrupt a private conversation. It's a shame there isn't a way to hold private conversations on a public forum - there should be a way to have Private Messages.
Thanks for the interruption. The guy has no concept of netiquette. It's not a private conversation.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:43
mgvsmith
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i was questioning how you knew these songs were written with the artist in mind and on hand. Why does that matter? i presume to make such a claim you have some inside information, and it's down to you to explain.

Do I think hit makers can write good songs? Yeah of course they can. More often than not they keep things safe - make something vaguely catchy that plays to the strengths of what is currently in vogue chart wise. Basically giving someone something easily digestible to capitalise on while they are still in the public eye.
I rely on what is in the public domain (YouTube, Wikipedia, google, online articles, BBC) and the writing credits. I've read books on Girls Aloud and Little Mix (!), watched TV progs on Rebecca Ferguson and GA. How do you back up your claims?
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Old 31-12-2016, 13:35
unique
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Beyoncé, Aguilera, Usher, Morrisette were all on Star Search.
none of those artists found musical fame as a direct result of appearing on those shows




Underwood and Hudson were on American Idol, Lambert was on Nashville Star. It was all part of the process of becoming better performers and better musicians, Beyoncé performed in a group and later became famous in a group.
beyonce didn't find musical fame as a direct result of appearing on tv talent show

do you mean adam lambert from american idol? as he along with the two names above in bold, did find musical fame as a direct result of appearing on tv talent shows


It would be hard to get agreement on 'musical significance' as you and the other poster know. But Girls Aloud won Popstars:The Rivals and 'Sound of the Underground' is credited with influencing British pop mid 2000s, so how significant do you want? It was also a very successful record.
that's one album to which it appears no member of girls aloud wrote any tracks or played any instruments on

what makes you consider that album as "significant"?



I would like to hear your definition of musically significant by the way?
i don't define words. i refer to the dictionary intsead. so have a look at the dictionary if you don't understand the meaning


I have the last three albums by Queen Bey, Morrisette's 'Jagged Little Pill',
neither of those artists found fame as a direct result of appearing on a tv talent show. that's a total of 4 albums between those two artists



Carrie Underwood's 'Blown Away' and Lambert's 'The Weight of These Wings' in downloads. I listen to most of my music on Spotify anyway. So What? They are all musically significant to me!
so that's 2 albums there, plus girls aloud, that makes 3 albums. even if you included the 4 from beyonce and alanis that's only 7 albums out of how many years, and how many hours and how many contestants on the shows over the years? it's not exactly a big list is it?

i'm not particularly familiar with the last 2 albums you mentioned. are they up there with the dark side of the moon, harvest, blue, revolver or low in regards to musical significance?

what makes you think those albums have musical significance?

and judging by your comment it sounds like out of the artists you originally named, you haven't found them significant enought to buy them all, or perhaps not even buy any. is that correct? it makes me wonder how significant you consider an album to be if you won't even buy it
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:04
Thorney
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i'm not particularly familiar with the last 2 albums you mentioned. are they up there with the dark side of the moon, harvest, blue, revolver or low in regards to musical significance?

t
It just gets silly when this forum starts making comparisons like that but playing devils advocates apart from' Dark Side' or 'Revolver' the other albums only got significant over many years.
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:30
mgvsmith
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...

what makes you consider that album as "significant"?
...
If you can't define what you mean by musically significant, don't use the term.

How does it matter who writes or plays the instruments if the significance is in the music?

And that isn't the point anyway, you introduced the musically significant bit.
The OP was just wondering whether you would write off the music of an artist who had appeared on a talent show. All of the artists I have mentioned appeared on a talent show. And I didn't write them off.

(Miranda Lambert, not Adam Lambert)
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:53
446.09375
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I tend to think that genuine talent will break through one way or another and shouldn't need a tacky TV show, but of course there will be exceptions.
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:54
Hassaan13
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While we're at it, what's your favourite album/single released by a talent show contestant?

Some of the biggest selling singles include Will Young's 'Evergreen', Gareth Gates' 'Unchained Melody', James Arthur's 'Impossible', Alexandra Burke's 'Hallelujah' and Ella Henderson's 'Ghost'. Not to mention Calum Scott with 'Dancing on My Own'.

Leona Lewis' album Spirit has sold over 3m copies and is one of the biggest selling albums in the UK of the century.
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Old 31-12-2016, 15:01
mgvsmith
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It just gets silly when this forum starts making comparisons like that but playing devils advocates apart from' Dark Side' or 'Revolver' the other albums only got significant over many years.
Doesn't it just? I have all of those albums (except Revolver) 'Dark side' and 'Low' on cassette indeed...so what?

I listen to far more than these on Spotify anyway....most recently Baltic Fleet (whole back catalogue), The new Monkees album, The Stones, Metallica's latest, King ('We are King'). Margo Price ('Midwest Farmer's Daughter') along with Little Mix's 'Glory Days' which may be musically siginificant some day.
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Old 31-12-2016, 15:11
mgvsmith
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While we're at it, what's your favourite album/single released by a talent show contestant?

Some of the biggest selling singles include Will Young's 'Evergreen', Gareth Gates' 'Unchained Melody', James Arthur's 'Impossible', Alexandra Burke's 'Hallelujah' and Ella Henderson's 'Ghost'. Not to mention Calum Scott with 'Dancing on My Own'.

Leona Lewis' album Spirit has sold over 3m copies and is one of the biggest selling albums in the UK of the century.
Misha B. 'Do You Think of Me?'
A real pity such a talent didn't do better.
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Old 31-12-2016, 16:27
yviebabe
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Will Young and Olly Murs spring immediately to my mind. Not just the music, but they're great performers live. So ignoring any act because it came from a talent show would also apply to Victoria Wood et al?
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Old 31-12-2016, 19:44
SummerShudder
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I do but I am a bit of a music snob. A music snob in the sense that I listen to more than what's in the Top 10. I believe the better music lies in the alternative rather than the mainstream, they can crossover of course.

I also believe if you had true talent you wouldn't need the X Factor to make it.

X Factor is essentially a karaoke contest for people who can sing. Singing is a very common talent. Songwriting less so.

Why would I wanna hear someone with a sob story singing a cover when I can listen to the original?

New original music is what should be encouraged and supported.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:26
unique
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If you can't define what you mean by musically significant, don't use the term.
i'll use whatever terms i like. the words are defined in the dictionary. i don't need to define them, neither do you

regardless of that i've left it up to you to use your own thoughts of why you consider them musically significant, yet again you've failed to state why. that leaves me thinking you know fine that they don't have much if any musical significance


How does it matter who writes or plays the instruments if the significance is in the music?
as you raised the subject, please tell me


And that isn't the point anyway, you introduced the musically significant bit.
The OP was just wondering whether you would write off the music of an artist who had appeared on a talent show. All of the artists I have mentioned appeared on a talent show. And I didn't write them off.
i did, yet you choose to argue about it. why?

i've stated my reasons for doing so. why do you have an issue with it?


(Miranda Lambert, not Adam Lambert)
why not refer to people by their full names? mentioning lambert only is usually going to make people think of adam lambert who is perhaps the more well known one seeing as he toured with some blokes murdering the music of a once respected band. when you refer to someone as "queen bey" or similar, it just makes me think i'm privvy to a schoolyard conversation between 13 year old girls

the long and short of it is there are few if any records of musical significance that's came directly as a result of artists finding success in a tv talent show. someone who was on a show years before finding fame, who didn't do particularly well on the show and eventually forgotten about, doesn't really count as people aren't buying the records as a result of them appearing on the show

most of the acts appearing on those shows are simply singing songs that other people have written and recorded for them. typically the acts spend weeks singing cover versions of songs that are usually chosen for them from a preselected sanctioned list, and in regards to the likes of x factor they then get the last 2 or 3 finalists to record their vocals on a prerecorded track that's usually a cover version or at least a track the act had no say in choosing, and the "winning" act's version is released. it's not exactly a good start to an artists career in regards to creative decisions. the artist usually then goes on to sing on an album that again is put together for them by management, again to which the artist has limited input other than recording vocals. typically the acts are marketed by creating music videos where the acts are wearing revealing clothing or have half naked girls in the videos. the core audience aren't buying the records for reasons of artistic integrity. the acts are basically singing puppets for blokes in studios to use as a front for the music they create. you can typically remove any act and replace with another and release the same song and on the basis the acts are similar in the looks states, the records would sell similar quantities, so it's more the song and writer and backroom studio people who are making the track a success than the tv show act
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