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Do you write off an artist if they made their mark on a talent show?


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Old 04-01-2017, 07:21
unique
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Read the quote again. You clearly don't understand what I am saying. I am not agreeing with you. Is that clear.

Mixed reviews at time of release...agreement between critics later...i.e.... agreed critical recognition LATER...get it? Which was central to your disagreement with the other poster, that is that agreed recognition only came after a number of years. The same could be said for Harvest which also received mixed reviews on release. In contrast, 'Blue' and 'Dark Side' received almost universal acclaim from release.

All of which is tangential to the main discussion.

if you bother to read the wiki article you will see there were good reviews at the time of the release and the album sold well

the time those albums were considered to be musically significant has nothing to do with the point i was making, so it's a moot point

your problem is you spend too much time typing replies and not enough time reading and understanding, and that's why you are wrong so much. and what's worse is you keep banging on about it when you are wrong, even thought it has nothing to do with the actual topic
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:24
unique
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Why not just name the thread'Are you a music snob, yes or no', thats exactly what this thread is asking.

It makes no sense to me why anyone wouldn't judge an artist on their music, and instead to judge them on their beginnings. I'm not such a shallow person and I choose to listen to music I like, instead of trying to be edgy.
why would it make someone a snob?

people will know off the bat that those artists will make the musical equivilent of the type of food you get in mcdonalds. some people may like that, but most people will know what they are eating is just a load of crap and prefer to make a choice to eat better. similarly with music you can avoid manufactured music in this way and listen to something that's been created through the interest and love for music rather than fame and to make money
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:15
Rocketpop
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why would it make someone a snob?

people will know off the bat that those artists will make the musical equivilent of the type of food you get in mcdonalds. some people may like that, but most people will know what they are eating is just a load of crap and prefer to make a choice to eat better. similarly with music you can avoid manufactured music in this way and listen to something that's been created through the interest and love for music rather than fame and to make money
I agree. Made even worse by the fact this is a music forum, and appariently having a broad interest in the said subject matter means being labelled a 'snob'. Or maybe we should all talk about the chart position of Little Mix every week as some seem to do.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:22
dearmrman
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Why not just name the thread'Are you a music snob, yes or no', thats exactly what this thread is asking.

It makes no sense to me why anyone wouldn't judge an artist on their music, and instead to judge them on their beginnings. I'm not such a shallow person and I choose to listen to music I like, instead of trying to be edgy.
Proud of it when it comes to the DS Forum on music.

I don't judge an artist on their beginnings....I just don't class talent show contestants as artists so it makes it easy, they are just marketing tools for the record company to sell product.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:24
mgvsmith
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if you bother to read the wiki article you will see there were good reviews at the time of the release and the album sold well

the time those albums were considered to be musically significant has nothing to do with the point i was making, so it's a moot point

your problem is you spend too much time typing replies and not enough time reading and understanding, and that's why you are wrong so much. and what's worse is you keep banging on about it when you are wrong, even thought it has nothing to do with the actual topic
At least you agree that this stuff about 'Low' etc is all tangential to the actual topic. Let's leave it at that.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:54
mushymanrob
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The Monkee's were a fictitious band on a TV show who got into all sorts of surreal and wacky capers every episode - the closest comparison would probably be Josie and the Pussycats.

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oh come on! josie and the pussycats were a cartoon... (wonder how many remember them?) . the monkees might not have started out as musicians (apart from mike) but they learned their trade. i saw them live in '86, a great set they played too.

Would S Club 7 not be a better comparison?

A lot of this is hindsight as well. The Monkees music was great because Neil Diamond and John Stewart wrote some of it and they were great songwriters. To return to the main point, whilst some would have written off a manufactured band who didn't even play on their own records, they produced 'I'm a Believer' and 'Daydream Believer'... classics or what?

The Monkees probably set a template for later 'manufactured' artists anyway, so we're influential whatever?
there was a good deal of horror that then americans were trying to cash in on the fab fours success by creating the pre-fab 4... but actually, like girls aloud, were soon forgiven when they produced a string of great pop tracks.

in reality, by the time the monkees hit the big time and could play their instruments, they were no different to loads of other acts who played songs that they didnt compose..... and that includes elvis, sinatra, cliff, (who dont get criticised for not playing instruments).

Why not just name the thread'Are you a music snob, yes or no', thats exactly what this thread is asking.
y.
oh that old chestnut..... if you dont like crap music youre a musical snob... typical snowflake reaction... the point is that there ARE great tracks that have depth, meaning, soul... and there ARE lazy cheap shallow piles of crap. it is not 'ok' to elevate crap to the level of a great piece of music.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:52
mgvsmith
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why would it make someone a snob?

people will know off the bat that those artists will make the musical equivilent of the type of food you get in mcdonalds. some people may like that, but most people will know what they are eating is just a load of crap and prefer to make a choice to eat better. similarly with music you can avoid manufactured music in this way and listen to something that's been created through the interest and love for music rather than fame and to make money
How do you know what music has been created through the interest and love for music rather than for fame and to make money? Would a professional songwriter or a session musician not be as motivated by love for music as much as a performing singer/songwriter? These are all professional or would be professional musicians who have to make a living. Most artists have to be thinking about whether their music will sell to their fan base and beyond.

There has long been a tension between the commercial and the creative in the production of popular music. It's a pop music industry after all. I'm sure that there are musicians who simply do it for the music but the vast majority of professional and semi-professional musicians need to be paid for their work. And that doesn't stop them loving what they do.

I heard Van Morrison on a recent radio interview point out that it's great being able to make music but you need to get paid and at times he struggled.

It's true that tv talent shows have encouraged some wannabes as opposed to people who love music and want to perform it professionally. But the majority of people who go on those shows seem genuine enough about their love for music. Many of them have gone to music schools, they are attempting to build careers with the talent they have. Talent shows give them a degree of exposure they wouldn't otherwise get and if they have some ability they'll get some decent outcome. It isn't the easiest industry to be successful in anyway.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:07
mgvsmith
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I agree. Made even worse by the fact this is a music forum, and appariently having a broad interest in the said subject matter means being labelled a 'snob'. Or maybe we should all talk about the chart position of Little Mix every week as some seem to do.
To be fair, popular music is the subject matter and commercial sales are a major aspect of popular music. They probably are overdone a bit but there is a genuine interest in how digital streaming has affected the pop charts.

(And I like Little Mix, a girl group where all members can sing, there is no lead singer and they can perform almost any genre of music and they write a bit too....watch this space!)
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:46
Rocketpop
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It's true that tv talent shows have encouraged some wannabes as opposed to people who love music and want to perform it professionally. But the majority of people who go on those shows seem genuine enough about their love for music. Many of them have gone to music schools, they are attempting to build careers with the talent they have. Talent shows give them a degree of exposure they wouldn't otherwise get and if they have some ability they'll get some decent outcome. It isn't the easiest industry to be successful in anyway.
Look at The Voice - how has helped those artists? The only people who it's helped are the judges, both Kaiser Chiefs & The Script got sales boosts and briefly increased in popularity. Even the X-Factor there has only been a handful of successful acts and some of those have already faded.

To be fair, popular music is the subject matter and commercial sales are a major aspect of popular music. They probably are overdone a bit but there is a genuine interest in how digital streaming has affected the pop charts.

(And I like Little Mix, a girl group where all members can sing, there is no lead singer and they can perform almost any genre of music and they write a bit too....watch this space!)
Shame the stuff they produce is rather bland though. Black Magic was decent I'll give em that. They can perform almost any genre music as long as it doesn't require playing an instrument
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:07
Dirtyhippy
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I was a big fan of Kelly Clarkson and I'm a metal fan ....guilty pleasure etc, Her early/mid career output is very appealing pop/rock that is as good as anyone's.

I am also a fan of a singer/songwriter called Crystal Bowersox who made her name from American Idol - she is a fantastic county/blues artist who can write and perform her own songs.

So no I don;t write people off from singing competitions but they have to appeal to me in some way.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:45
mgvsmith
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Look at The Voice - how has helped those artists? The only people who it's helped are the judges, both Kaiser Chiefs & The Script got sales boosts and briefly increased in popularity. Even the X-Factor there has only been a handful of successful acts and some of those have already faded.



Shame the stuff they produce is rather bland though. Black Magic was decent I'll give em that. They can perform almost any genre music as long as it doesn't require playing an instrument
The voice can be used as a musical instrument too, I don't know why people think it should be considered less than the ability to play a guitar or the drums? Sure there are plenty of musicians around who can play lots of genres and many who stick to one or two, I'm not dissing any of them. But the ability to harmonise effectively and sing acapella isn't a skill available to all artists. So, it's not that Little Mix are the greatest musicians in the world or anything but they are musicians. There are a few producer/dj artists whose 'musicanship' is more problematic to me.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:50
mgvsmith
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I was a big fan of Kelly Clarkson and I'm a metal fan ....guilty pleasure etc, Her early/mid career output is very appealing pop/rock that is as good as anyone's.

I am also a fan of a singer/songwriter called Crystal Bowersox who made her name from American Idol - she is a fantastic county/blues artist who can write and perform her own songs.

So no I don;t write people off from singing competitions but they have to appeal to me in some way.
Which is the guilty pleasure? Clarkson or Metal?
I remember Ms Bowersox actually, it was around the last time I watched American Idol. She was an excellent musician and quite resistant to being moulded.

You won't always know the beginnings or background of the artist you hear but you are nearly always able to tell whether you like something or not. It may help your appreciation if you have an understanding of how music has been created and by whom.
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Old 04-01-2017, 14:03
Dirtyhippy
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Which is the guilty pleasure? Clarkson or Metal?
I remember Ms Bowersox actually, it was around the last time I watched American Idol. She was an excellent musician and quite resistant to being moulded.
.
to some people, both
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Old Yesterday, 01:18
robo2
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Proud of it when it comes to the DS Forum on music.

I don't judge an artist on their beginnings....I just don't class talent show contestants as artists so it makes it easy, they are just marketing tools for the record company to sell product.
a music snob on ds is someone who doesnt like bland chart music sung by manufactured groups/ talent show pub singers that 99% of the time they didnt write the music/ lyrics of
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