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Such a WEAK response to Russian interference in American election


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Old 29-12-2016, 21:59
David_Elson
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You know how someone is striking a cord? The whataboutisms come a'flying. The FBI and CIA have both concluded, with many other intelligence services, that there was Russian involvement in the election which swayed the outcome.

"BUT BUT what about Americaaaaaa?", says every shill ever.

FBI and CIA you say? That's fine. Where is the evidence? When they show the evidence, then I will think it is not just a loony tune attempt to distract people from the actual content of leaked emails, which I must point out show a pretty disturbing profile of the MSM and it's involvement in American politics.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:00
Mr_XcX
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Hacking was mentioned several times before the election - the New York Times reported on the investigation back in July and Clinton & Trump even talked about it during the debates.
It was an entirely different context.

It was a "Russia is evil and trying to make Trump win".

Since they addressed this continuously. Kinda disproves the point they "swayed" the election because people already knew what Russia was supposedly doing. People made their own minds up and did not vote for her.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:05
jesaya
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FBI and CIA you say? That's fine. Where is the evidence? When they show the evidence, then I will think it is not just a loony tune attempt to distract people from the actual content of leaked emails, which I must point out show a pretty disturbing profile of the MSM and it's involvement in American politics.
You can read the NCCIC & FBI joint report released today (oncemore linked to it above) and Obama has stated that a full report will be presented to Congress. I doubt much more will be released to the public until then, but the fact that the Republican leadership accepts what they have already been shown indicates that there is evidence and it is compelling.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:08
jesaya
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It was an entirely different context.

It was a "Russia is evil and trying to make Trump win".

Since they addressed this continuously. Kinda disproves the point they "swayed" the election because people already knew what Russia was supposedly doing. People made their own minds up and did not vote for her.
No, it really wasn't. This whole hacking thing has been rumbling along since the spring. What you seem not to get is that it doesn't actually matter whether it influenced the election result at all... what matters is that Russia tried to influence it. THAT is the reason for the sanctions and the reason why Republicans not only support them, but don't think they go far enough.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:11
Palafrugel
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what matters is that Russia tried to influence it.
Like Obama tried to influence our referendum - and Goldman Sachs.. and many other foreign entities.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:15
mimik1uk
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Like Obama tried to influence our referendum - and Goldman Sachs.. and many other foreign entities.
i think one of my favourite terms that i saw used on a regular basis this year in political discussions was "false equivalency" and here we have a perfect example ...
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:16
jesaya
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Like Obama tried to influence our referendum - and Goldman Sachs.. and many other foreign entities.
That was out in the open - a bit different to give a public opinion about what they prefer will happen and hacking private servers to try and make it happen.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:17
Palafrugel
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i think one of my favourite terms that i saw used on a regular basis this year in political discussions was "false equivalency" and here we have a perfect example ...
Got it. Influencing with Referendums which will sculpt the UK reality more than 20 elections could ever do - fine. Influencing a US election (no evidence this actually happened) - bad.

Reminds me of Lib Dems saying the result of the referendum will be binding. As soon as the result goes the wrong way - the UK was 'mislead.'

Thank goodness the New York Times is losing influence by the minute.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:20
davor
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First Israel and now Russia. Obama is blatantly trying to cause as much trouble as he can before retiring to the lap of luxury.

It's frankly juvenile and dangerous.


Obama will start the war and then later, people will say Trump has started it.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:21
Palafrugel
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That was out in the open - a bit different to give a public opinion about what they prefer will happen and hacking private servers to try and make it happen.
So there is evidence the Russian Government paid hackers to hack Podesta's email?
I saw the hack that allowed the hackers to get access - it is the same type of hack tried daily - on millions of accounts.

"no-reply@accounts.googlemail.com."

The subject line warns, "Someone has your password"

'Click here to fix.'

He did, and the rest is history. You believe the Russian Government sent him that email on Putin's orders?
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:28
davor
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I don't know why Americans keep saying Russians hacked the elections and they can't prove it. Even if they did, it's very hard to prove that. They should have either cyber attack Russia back in secrecy, or keep quiet about it unless they had solid evidence.

It's clear that Hillary was unpopular with the electors and she had so many scandals and controversies going around, and it's not surprising she'd lost.

As I said before, political establishment in America had decided to make a u turn in politics and they need the executor -Donald Trum. If something goes wrong, they could always blame it on Trump and say: "As we all know, he is populist, irresponsible, inexperienced, racist etc.".
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:29
jesaya
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So there is evidence the Russian Government paid hackers to hack Podesta's email?
I saw the hack that allowed the hackers to get access - it is the same type of hack tried daily - on millions of accounts. 'Click here.' He did, and the rest is history. You believe the Russian Government sent him that email on Putin's orders?
I believe that the US government, both the Democratic White House and Republican Congress have seen evidence, yes. Which is why they (the Republicans) support Obama's sanctions. That it is a common hack isn't really the point.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:44
Palafrugel
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That it is a common hack isn't really the point.
Well it kinda is. The hack that tricked Podesta is a common one - so common - it is a cliche - much like the Nigerian Prince scam email. Anyone could have sent that scam email and sold the results to the highest bidder.

The US likes to display evidence 24/7 - of Iranian nuclear activity, North Korea troop movements, hospital bombings in Iraq, Chinese island building in the pacific etc - and yet, they were unwilling to show the world simple and basic evidence that the Russia Government hacked Podesta's email? Why keep it secret? Unless it is not there.

As i said, the New York Times dug its own grave this election. Backed the wrong horse and is still trying to fight the result. This cartoon sums up the problem:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0xvpP9UQAAJOhh.jpg:large
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:48
MARTYM8
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The Twitter account of the Russian embassy in London certainly doesn't mince it's words.

'Everyone will be glad to see the last of this hapless administration.'

https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEm...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Putin was probably too busy sorting out the peace deal brokered with Turkey in Syria today - with the US nowhere to be seen.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:50
Palafrugel
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The Twitter account of the Russian embassy in London certainly doesn't mince it's words.

'Everyone will be glad to see the back of this hapless administration.'

https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEm...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
This is just another Brexit situation, the losing side with the backing of the msm - is trying to salt the soil so that nothing can grow after their humiliation.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:51
ustarion
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The Twitter account of the Russian embassy in London certainly doesn't mince it's words.

'Everyone will be glad to see the last of this hapless administration.'

https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEm...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
This 'hapless' administration could wipe the smile of Putin's face if it wanted to. Instead it is going for really small gestures.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:52
jesaya
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Well it kinda is. The hack that tricked Podesta is a common one - so common - it is a cliche - much like the Nigerian Prince scam email. Anyone could have sent that scam email and sold the results to the highest bidder.

The US likes to display evidence 24/7 - of Iranian nuclear activity, North Korea troop movements, hospital bombings in Iraq etc - and yet, they were unwilling to show the world simple and meaningless evidence that Russia hacked Podesta's email? Why keep it secret? Unless it is not there.

As i said, the New York Times dug its own grave this election. Backed the wrong horse and is still trying to fight the result. This cartoon sums up the problem:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0xvpP9UQAAJOhh.jpg:large
What has the NYT got to do with this? The report linked earlier came from government agencies, not a newspaper.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:08
johnny_boi_UK
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It isn't rubbish at all. Of course countries spy on each other - even allies, and they always have. What is different here is that Russia isn't an ally of the US - and the evidence is that they tried to influence the election there. It doesn't actually matter who they wanted to win, Trump or Clinton... the point is that they interfered and that is why sanctions have been imposed.

As for publishing - well I am not sure why they need to... as the Republicans accept the evidence and the sanctions are supported by them as well.
what evidence?
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:12
D_Mcd4
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How some are going on! They had to do something, it's been an awful embarrassment for America to be so played so easily by the Russians. Anyway it's only for a few months at the most as Trump will obviously do away with any sanctions and reward Putin for his help.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:19
ustarion
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How some are going on! They had to do something, it's been an awful embarrassment for America to be so played so easily by the Russians. Anyway it's only for a few months at the most as Trump will obviously do away with any sanctions and reward Putin for his help.
The lapdog has just tweeted that it's time to move on.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:20
Alrightmate
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First Israel and now Russia. Obama is blatantly trying to cause as much trouble as he can before retiring to the lap of luxury.

It's frankly juvenile and dangerous.
Looks like it to me.
I see that the Democrats refuse to accept their own culpability for how information got leaked out.
How does Obama feel about America spying on Germany by bugging Angela Merkel's phone? That was okay was it?

It looks especially weird because only last week they were scaremongering about Trump increasing hostilities between Russia. And that was after suggesting that Trump was a Russian puppet.

All these countries spy and try to gain the upper hand. What's he trying to take the moral high ground for when he has none to stand on?
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:22
Shopaholic26
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This kind of evidence?

https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/defaul...R_16-20296.pdf

This report is provided “as is” for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland
Security (DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:25
Alrightmate
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Best you can do I guess when you don't have much in the way of definitive evidence.

There was of course documented cases of machines changing Trump votes changing to Clinton votes but lets ignore that. It's only the Russians when Clinton loses right?
When Trump was asked if he would accept the result of the election and he said he might not, the Democrats were up in arms about it. Literally saying it was dangerous to question the process and was an act against democracy.
But here we are, with the boot on the other foot, and it's the Democrats in meltdown mode.
They told Trump it was impossible for anyone to 'rig' the election.
But now they lost it is the only acceptable explanation to them.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:26
ustarion
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When Trump was asked if he would accept the result of the election and he said he might not, the Democrats were up in arms about it. Literally saying it was dangerous to question the process and was an act against democracy.
But here we are, with the boot on the other foot, and it's the Democrats in meltdown mode.
They told Trump it was impossible for anyone to 'rig' the election.
Any idiot knows they gave the information to wikileaks which itself is a very dubious organisation.
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Old 29-12-2016, 23:38
Alrightmate
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It isn't just a 'couple' of diplomats though - it is 35... and the closure of two Russian compounds in the US, and sanctions against the GRU, FSB and companies that equipped them. That's fairly big stuff in diplomatic terms, especially as he said they would take other steps, including 'unpublicised' actions.

A 'weak response' is saying 'we ought to get on with our lives', because computers are, like, complicated and 'nobody knows exactly what’s going on.' But that is what the next four years will be like.
Obama publicly said that he would ensure that the political transition from him to Trump will run as smoothly as possible.
But it looks to me as if Obama is trying his best to try to make as big a problem as he possibly can before Trump is inaugurated.

I dread to think what the plan would have been if Clinton had won.
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