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Such a WEAK response to Russian interference in American election |
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#151 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,425
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Where are they? The US hasn't produced any evidence. This is the US that Snowden showed can sniff every packet entering or leaving the US for bear scent. Yet this is the 'evidence'-
https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/defaul...-2016-1229.pdf DISCLAIMER: This report is provided “as is” for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. Hardly reassuring given the way the report is being used. As for the attack- In spring 2016, APT28 compromised the same political party, again via targeted spearphishing. This time, the spearphishing email tricked recipients into changing their passwords through a fake webmail domain hosted on APT28 operational infrastructure. So your basic mail shot and 'click this now!' attack. Most of the doc is plain'ol BCP that if the Democrats had followed, they wouldn't have got pwned using widely available script kiddie tools and tactics. It's hardly the kind of stuff that will strike phear into the hacking community, or demonstrate the US's cyber superiority. All it shows is the Democrats hire people who'll happily click on stuff they shouldn't. |
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#152 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In a jar, on a shelf
Posts: 31,672
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Quote:
I like the part where you didn't read past the disclaimer and you're already dismissing the whole thing. OMG Smoking Gun, government report has a disclaimer on it!
Best response seems to be from the UK Russian embassy- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38466964 And even if the Russian's hacked DNC resources, all that leaked was a bunch of stuff showing the Democrat's contempt for their electorate.. Which many Americans already knew, hence the swing to Red. |
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#153 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In a jar, on a shelf
Posts: 31,672
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That's not the point of the report...
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#154 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,425
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So.. what do you think the point is/was?
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#155 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
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Hey, I read further. There's not a lot to the report, ie only the first 4 pages. Rest is boilerplate infosec stuff that if the DNC had followed, they'd not be in this position. There is zero evidence showing any Russian connection other than speculation about 'ATP' and a list of possible Russian pseudonyms. Hopefully the report to Congress will have a bit more meat, otherwise Congressmen may start asking pointed questions about cybersecurity budgets.
Best response seems to be from the UK Russian embassy- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38466964 And even if the Russian's hacked DNC resources, all that leaked was a bunch of stuff showing the Democrat's contempt for their electorate.. Which many Americans already knew, hence the swing to Red. As for the Russian tweet of the duck? I guess they'll speak the same juvenile twitter language of the incoming President. God help us all. https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaDenies/ I think you're forgetting the fact that Republicans have been beating up the Russians for decades when liberals weren't. Do you think Congressional Republicans are going to go easy on Russia, when half of their base is too stupid to know we won the Cold War? They'll flog the old grudges as much as Putin does in Russia. Trump is the anomaly in this situation. |
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#156 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Quote:
The point wasn't that it showed the DNC to be biased (it isn't, but whatever), but that it happened at all. You're basically saying that if it happened, but you agree with the information, then you don't care.
As for the Russian tweet of the duck? I guess they'll speak the same juvenile twitter language of the incoming President. God help us all. https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaDenies/ I think you're forgetting the fact that Republicans have been beating up the Russians for decades when liberals weren't. Do you think Congressional Republicans are going to go easy on Russia, when half of their base is too stupid to know we won the Cold War? They'll flog the old grudges as much as Putin does in Russia. Trump is the anomaly in this situation. |
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#157 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
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Threatened with being back of the queue for a trade deal.
In other words vote this way or I will eventually impose trade sanctions on you for daring to democratically vote against my wishes. Obama must surely be the most idiotic US president ever. The US will prioritise its trade deals with big economic areas and blocks. Small countries, like the UK. will get worse versions of those deals - after they are made. Thats because you don't give away the preceedent of better deals by concluding them with small economies first, , and what you get, depends on your negotiating power. The Brexiters now have to deal with Trump - who is a protectionist ,and sees trade deals as a way of improving US advantages, not increasing international free trade. Sure he will give you a deal - on his terms. |
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#158 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,741
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Good grief. If you're just going to assume everything that comes out of the US is a lie, and evil (lol) and everything they say about Russia is propaganda, then you have nothing to add to the conversation. You've made up your mind, good for you.
Now let the people who think critically will continue to discuss the issue. Thanks. ![]() No, not everything the US administration say about Russia is propaganda, but from time to time I believe it is depending on who's in power and what's happening at the current time. I believe that right now is one such time. It's been repeated several times by me and others that this wasn't hacking according to the understanding of the word most of us are aware of. This was a phishing scam where a wide net was cast and some DNC officials were stupid enough to ignore basic security protocol. I must say that they're doing an excellent job of deflecting attention away from their own failings when it comes to security. Blame the commies, it's a tried and tested trusty technique. It has to be Putin because he's a bad guy and everyone knows he's a bad guy who must be involved with all the bad things that go on in the world. A poster asked who do they need to prove anything to? The answer is obviously to prove to the poster who asked that question, us, anyone who frankly gives a shit about truth in this matter and would actually want proof because it would get us closer to truth. But if truth is inconvenient to some then proof will be inconsequential. |
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#159 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Just a statement of the obvious from Obama . it was only the Leave campaigners, living in the 1950s, who didn't understand it - because they think Britain is still a major power.
The US will prioritise its trade deals with big economic areas and blocks. Small countries, like the UK. will get worse versions of those deals - after they are made. Thats because you don't give away the preceedent of better deals by concluding them with small economies first, , and what you get, depends on your negotiating power. The Brexiters now have to deal with Trump - who is a protectionist ,and sees trade deals as a way of improving US advantages, not increasing international free trade. Sure he will give you a deal - on his terms. It is not complicated. It is very simple. Obama said the UK would be at the back of the queue for a free-trade deal. Trump said we would be at the front of the queue for a free trade deal. Trump is a protectionist but his economic advisers have gone on the record to say Trump will seek a free trade deal with the UK - at the front of the queue. This helps the UK and indeed the image of the UK. Obama tried to damage the UK and Hillary would have also continued on that same threatening tangent. |
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#160 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,741
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Hey, I read further. There's not a lot to the report, ie only the first 4 pages. Rest is boilerplate infosec stuff that if the DNC had followed, they'd not be in this position. There is zero evidence showing any Russian connection other than speculation about 'ATP' and a list of possible Russian pseudonyms. Hopefully the report to Congress will have a bit more meat, otherwise Congressmen may start asking pointed questions about cybersecurity budgets.
Best response seems to be from the UK Russian embassy- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38466964 And even if the Russian's hacked DNC resources, all that leaked was a bunch of stuff showing the Democrat's contempt for their electorate.. Which many Americans already knew, hence the swing to Red. So from that comment I think we can garner that congress hasn't been informed of any secret evidence which we weren't aware of before. If they haven't got to the bottom of this, if they don't know what was done, and if they don't know what the implications of the attack were or what effect they had on the election, how are they substantiating their claims with any proof of anything? They're practically admitting that they just don't know. |
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#161 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,741
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I think you have forgotten plenty of Republicans tried to sabotage Trump at various stages of the election. Many of the these same Republicans are now backing Obama's actions against Russia.
I really hate calling them the Democrats or the Democratic Party, but what can you do? ![]() If the Russian equivalent arrived at a mostly consensus opinion would we believe them because a lot of their people agreed with each other? If you wouldn't then you'd have to ask yourself if you only agree with America because it's America and disagree with Russia because it's Russia. |
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#162 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK - Leaving The EU - MAGA
Posts: 3,161
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I like the part where you didn't read past the disclaimer and you're already dismissing the whole thing. OMG Smoking Gun, government report has a disclaimer on it!
But hey, least we're talking about the 'hacking' and not how corrupt Hillary and co are. |
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#163 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 21,645
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It is not complicated. It is very simple.
Obama said the UK would be at the back of the queue for a free-trade deal. Trump said we would be at the front of the queue for a free trade deal. |
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#164 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Trump also said he would build a giant wall and put Clinton in prison and many other things, none of which will happen. They were all just crowd-pleasing lies.
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#165 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,604
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All the Russians are accused of, is revealing what the Democrats had been up to. Why aren't the people responsible for those things being blamed rather than who did or didn't blow the whistle on them.
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#166 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,494
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All the Russians are accused of, is revealing what the Democrats had been up to. Why aren't the people responsible for those things being blamed rather than who did or didn't blow the whistle on them.
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#167 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,604
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You're OK with Russia hacking into suppposedly secure files of the US government. It's fine is it that they attempted to disrupt, interfere and influence the US election?
If the voters thought that certain things were done that were wrong, then blame the people who did those wrong things. This all assumes that there was that much of an impact anyway. |
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#168 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Isle of Dogs
Posts: 2,143
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It would seem that some people are so desperately unhappy at the result of the election that they are clutching at every available straw to discredit it.
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#169 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 386
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It would seem that some people are so desperately unhappy at the result of the election that they are clutching at every available straw to discredit it.
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#170 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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It would seem that some people are so desperately unhappy at the result of the election that they are clutching at every available straw to discredit it.
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#171 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 21,645
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why would senior republicans in congress be desperately unhappy that the republicans won the election ?
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#172 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In a jar, on a shelf
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So from that comment I think we can garner that congress hasn't been informed of any secret evidence which we weren't aware of before.
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002...etherpopup.gif can be neither confirmed nor denied. Problem is whether anyone in Congress has the knowledge or experience to see if the evidence is at all plausible. DNC hired an outside security company which came up with some vague conclusions, but so far there's little compelling evidence to show it was state-sponsored rather than hackers for lolz. And if an IP address inside a country is sufficient to show state support, then all the hackers who use Amazon's conveniently disposable servers might get the US in a spot of bother. |
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#173 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 19,736
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQKqMfuCuY
^ Good on President Putin for not lowering himself to Obama's level. He's outsmarted Obama again! ![]() See also in that video CNN's 'fake news' reporting. Putin is also inviting the children of American diplomats to a party in the Kremlin for a New Year and Christmas party. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() “We will not forbid families and children from spending the New Year’s holidays at the places they are used to. Moreover, I invite the children of all American diplomats with accreditation in Russia to New Year’s and Christmas festivities in the Kremlin,” the Russian president said. Putin said he regretted that US President Barack Obama is ending his term “in such a way,” but that he extended his New Year’s congratulations to the outgoing US president and his family nevertheless. https://www.rt.com/news/372256-putin...lsion-rejects/ |
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#174 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,630
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If i was an American citizen i'd be asking the question.. Why are we punishing Russia or anyone else for that matter for revealing detail regarding the actions of a candidate for presidency? Is Obamas actions inferring that it was wrong that these details were revealed for public scrutiny? What kind of person apportions all blame on the messenger?
If i was an American citizen i'd be thanking the Russians for giving us some extra info to munch on. Here was me thinking he was a decent upstanding bloke until he started interfering in our referendum and now this. (can we expel some of his diplomats for his attack on democracy by interfering in our countries EU referendum?) What a massive hypocritical tool he has shown himself to be. |
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#175 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,741
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Quote:
Apparently a classified briefing was given to some in Congress. Whether it was from the same team that produced this-
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002...etherpopup.gif can be neither confirmed nor denied. Problem is whether anyone in Congress has the knowledge or experience to see if the evidence is at all plausible. DNC hired an outside security company which came up with some vague conclusions, but so far there's little compelling evidence to show it was state-sponsored rather than hackers for lolz. And if an IP address inside a country is sufficient to show state support, then all the hackers who use Amazon's conveniently disposable servers might get the US in a spot of bother. Sorry, not good enough. You can't have a superpower like America screwing around with another superpower without being able to demonstrate the truth of what you're trying to claim. At least in the Iraq war they put some effort into conjuring up some creative lies or half-truths. Here they aren't even bothering to convince the American public. They are owed an explanation. I watched the start of the news on BBC One and ITV at 10 last night and they actually described the claims as allegations and accusations. Which is good, that's what they are. But then they went on with their respective pieces in a critical tone of Trump for not responding in the correct hostile manner like Obama.....to what they just referred to themselves as allegations and accusations. This is our bloody media, presenting a narrative where America ought to take firm action over what they have just reported themselves as unconfirmed accusations. That's quite incredible. Trump has been criticised for calling Putin 'smart' for not reacting to Obama's hostile moves. Well, yes, his response is what I'd describe as smart. What's wrong with saying that. Do people want another cold war escalating or something? If Putin can be described as anything it would be smart, in comparison to Obama who just looks a bit stupid now. He fell right into Putin's hands because I don't think he expected Putin to do that. I think a lot of people can see this for what it is. The Democrats are really trying to screw things up for Trump so that when he enters office he has a political mess to sort out of their making. Which potentially could have been an extremely dangerous mess which put lives at risk. Which makes you think about what Obama previously said to Trump about helping him have a smooth transition to the Whitehouse. Sounds quite sinister now in hindsight. It's like the kind of thing a Bond villain might say as a threatening euphemism which means the direct opposite of what they're saying. Obama and Clinton want to create as much of a problem as possible for the incoming administration. They don't care how much of a potentially harmful effect this this could have on real people in the future. I don't see how Obama getting Russian diplomats kicked out of America helps American people in any way whatsoever. This was obviously a move designed to hopefully create a significant problem for Trump. Their bitter and vindictive revenge is more important to them than the potential risks they could so easily create for America as a country. It's also a very handy diversion tactic which shifts focus away from the actual content of the emails. The media are duly obliging them. Which shows how unfit for purpose they are. |
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