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Israel/Palestinie, Who's Side You On And Why?


View Poll Results: Who's Side You On, Israel or Palestine, or Both/Neither?
Israel 47 26.86%
Palestine 46 26.29%
Both 16 9.14%
Neither 66 37.71%
Voters: 175. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old 30-12-2016, 15:29
Boo Radley75
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I'm on the side of people trying to live in peace who are getting killed by religious nutters
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:30
jasmin_witkins
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I think Lebanon is the most liberal country in the Middle East. In Israel - Jewish citizens get preferential treatment in many tenants of life. In Lebanon, it doesn't matter what religion you are. Lebanon is politically, religiously and culturally more diverse also.
Lebanon is basically a training camp for Hezbollah and an Iranian proxy because of it Shia population. It was once mainly Christian, what happened to then all? It's Christian population is now around 20%. You have completely overlooked the effects of the civil war.

The Palestinian Authority has received $45bn in American aidto 'promote democracy' since 1998 and £20m per year from the European Union. Where has all the money gone?
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:31
Styker
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What a shambles Israel/Palestine is and always has been. Contained by the Romans and Turks, stabilised to a point by the British and French in their own self-interest, and flooded with Jewish refugees fleeing from the horrors of the world it is now a festering crucible of violence, bigotry and nationalism. So what's the solution? How about this. Stop the further encroachment of Paletinian land and fix existing boundaries. Protect them with international troops and guarantees and give the Palestinians their own state. Guarantee the territorial rights of both countries. Pie in the sky? Probably, but what else can be done?
I largely agree with that, I have started to wonder if a one state solution is the answer too but it has always initially come across as a big family fortunes style of X (noise too!). If they went for a 1 state solution it would mean power sharing which would be a good thing, but would Israeli's agree to it and would both sides be able to live in harmony?

With islam and judaism being so similar then on cultural/religious basis they should be able to live side by side, its the land grabs, forcing the state of israel against the Palestinians agreement which has poisoned everything. It might be better to look at a one state solution with power sharing and for both sides to agree that any wreckers who try and mess things up will be pursued by the authorities and face the lawful consequences etc etc.
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:42
voteout
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With islam and judaism being so similar then on cultural/religious basis they should be able to live side by side
IMO it's the fact that the two religions are so similar (in effect, both Christianity and Islam are little more than Jewish sects) that causes the animosity in the first place. Much is the same so they argue over the details.

Religion, and Abrahamic religion in particular is built on a foundation of setting itself as superior to the 'other'.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:10
Beanybun
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I doubt that very much. There were major towns/cities that were taken over by force all over what is now recognised as israel including Haifa. Have you ever watched the documentary Al Naqba which was and still might be on Youtube? Its very informative about the outrages committed against the Palestinians and how the British really stuffed the Palestinians bigtime, especially by training zionists and leaving them military equipment which was used to take Palestine by force in 1948.
The director openly admits that his was in no way attempting objectivity and his sympathies lie entirely with the Palestinians. A film that lacks objectivity may be well made and interesting, or it may b a piece of propaganda. Either way, its worthless, as an historical record.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:27
Palafrugel
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Lebanon is basically a training camp for Hezbollah and an Iranian proxy because of it Shia population. It was once mainly Christian, what happened to then all? It's Christian population is now around 20%. You have completely overlooked the effects of the civil war.

The Palestinian Authority has received $45bn in American aidto 'promote democracy' since 1998 and £20m per year from the European Union. Where has all the money gone?
I think you have overlooked the actual facts.

For example:

It was once mainly Christian, what happened to then all? It's Christian population is now around 20%.
The Christian population of Lebanon is 40%, not 20%.


Lebanon is basically a training camp for Hezbollah and an Iranian proxy because of it Shia population.
The Shia population of Lebanon is 27%. Hezzbullah garnered 9% of the votes last election and the party does as it pleases - including sending its armed wing to Syria. However that does not mean that Lebanon is an Iranian proxy. Lebanon's president is Christian and its PM Sunni.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:31
MidnightFalcon
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When everyone picks a "side" there is no middle ground, only ever more blinkered extremes.

This is how war and suffering go on for generations.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:42
SULLA
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I am on Palestines side. Correct me if I am wrong, but this land was stolen from them because Europe felt guilty about the holocaust.
You are wrong

What right did Britain have to take away Palestinian land even with a mandate?! What happened to eerr whats it called, self determination?!
There was an area called Palestine which was part of the Ottomon Empire. After World War 1, Britain and France re-drew the maps of the Ottomon Empire but what right did they have to do that (I mean they didn't re-draw Germany after WW2 per se did they?) and what right did they have to take away and give away Palestine to create Israel without the people living there agreement?

The answer is they didn't have the right, it was a outrageous abuse of power, something Britain, America, Israel in its current being and all other countries who voted to recognise Israel as a country wouldn't accept if it happened to them!
When and where was this country called Palestine? The West Bank was part of Jordan

there is no hope for a two solution, because zionism insist that jerusalem will be the eternal capital for jews.

nobody in the world recognizes israels claim on jerusalem
Well I do for starters
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:29
Video Nasty
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The side of innocents on both sides caught between a political/religious pissing contest.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:36
oncemore
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I'm on the side of moderate voices seeking peace, which I'm not sure is true of either 'side' right now.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:00
Styker
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You are wrong





When and where was this country called Palestine? The West Bank was part of Jordan

Well I do for starters
The answer to your question (rhetorical too it seems) was in the post of mine that you quoted! Palestine was part of the ottomon emprie, that was the recognised country. In any case, you shouldn't have to be a country to not lose your land/homes! Or would you be ok with a "squatter" coming round your home, chucking you out and saying this is mine now as you're not a country therefore its ok for me to take over it?!
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:04
TeeGee
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Throughout history the strong have always taken land and resources from the weak. Religeon is just another form of tribalism and there will be conflicts for centuries to come. 24 Hr news and handwringing will not solves anyone's problems.

I still remember watching "Exodus" in 1960. I think the theme tune (IIRC) contains the line - "This land is mine. God gave this land to me......" Hey ho...

Last edited by TeeGee : 30-12-2016 at 18:11. Reason: Link to lyrics
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:08
Styker
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Throughout history the strong have always taken land and resources from the weak. Religeon is just another form of tribalism and there will be conflicts for centuries to come. 24 Hr news and handwringing will not solves anyone's problems.

I still remember watching "Exodus" in 1960. I think the theme tune (IIRC) contains the line - "This land is mine. God gave this land to me......" Hey ho...
And Israel and its supporters so need to be told that International law is not run on religious law and or what they believe it to be either. I can't believe how their representatives at the UN claim religious rights to Palestine either and that no one tells them the obvious!
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:31
Beanybun
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And Israel and its supporters so need to be told that International law is not run on religious law and or what they believe it to be either. I can't believe how their representatives at the UN claim religious rights to Palestine either and that no one tells them the obvious!
Israel is unsurprisingly Cynical when it comes to the biased proclamations of an organisation which elects Saudi Arabia to its Asia group human rights council, in possibly the single most ironic act in history, bearing in mind it's spent the last 18 months bombing Yemeni citizens, a fact which receives scant attention round these parts. It shares that role with those bastions of freedom, China and Iraq. Oh, also Japan.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:46
Styker
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Israel is unsurprisingly Cynical when it comes to the biased proclamations of an organisation which elects Saudi Arabia to its Asia group human rights council, in possibly the single most ironic act in history, bearing in mind it's spent the last 18 months bombing Yemeni citizens, a fact which receives scant attention round these parts. It shares that role with those bastions of freedom, China and Iraq. Oh, also Japan.

Cynical? That's rich considering all of israel and its supporters uber double standards with their false claims of anti semtism to try and shut down criticism.scare critics off!
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:51
SULLA
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The answer to your question (rhetorical too it seems) was in the post of mine that you quoted! Palestine was part of the ottomon emprie, that was the recognised country. In any case, you shouldn't have to be a country to not lose your land/homes! Or would you be ok with a "squatter" coming round your home, chucking you out and saying this is mine now as you're not a country therefore its ok for me to take over it?!
How many Palestinian homes have been destroyed or occupied ?
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:59
jasmin_witkins
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And Israel and its supporters so need to be told that International law is not run on religious law and or what they believe it to be either. I can't believe how their representatives at the UN claim religious rights to Palestine either and that no one tells them the obvious!
Is that different to claiming Jerusalem because Muhammad allegedly flew over it on a winged horse?

Do you know there is a Jew limit on Temple Mount incase it offends Muslims.
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Old 30-12-2016, 19:42
mounty
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I mean they didn't re-draw Germany after WW2 per se did they?
Yes they did there are a number of historically German regions and towns that are now part of either France, Poland, Russia and other European countries.
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Old 30-12-2016, 19:42
Styker
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How many Palestinian homes have been destroyed or occupied ?
Millions were forced off their land and homes in 1948 with thousands of villages burnt down by zionists! Watch the documentary Al Naqba (The catostrophe) which is on youtube, it will tell you loads.
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Old 30-12-2016, 19:45
Styker
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Is that different to claiming Jerusalem because Muhammad allegedly flew over it on a winged horse?

Do you know there is a Jew limit on Temple Mount incase it offends Muslims.
Palestinians want their land and homes back because it was their land/homes before it was stolen off them! The Palestinians have their beliefs too but that is not their main claim to the land unlike Israel and its supporters, many of whom are not jewish, their ancestors never lived there but they are Zionists choosing to add fuel to the fire on this in general, trouble makers I'd call them!

Yes they did there are a number of traditionally German regions and towns that are now part of either France, Poland or Russia.
News to me, was that by force, what happened? Where are the outcries about it? If people agreed to it then thats their choice. Palestinians did not agree to their land being taken off them etc...
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Old 30-12-2016, 20:13
John146
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Palestinians want their land and homes back because it was their land/homes before it was stolen off them! The Palestinians have their beliefs too but that is not their main claim to the land unlike Israel and its supporters, many of whom are not jewish, their ancestors never lived there but they are Zionists choosing to add fuel to the fire on this in general, trouble makers I'd call them!



News to me, was that by force, what happened? Where are the outcries about it? If people agreed to it then thats their choice. Palestinians did not agree to their land being taken off them etc...
Well the two that come to mind are Alsace Lorraine now French was German, Silesia was German now Polish after WW2, probably more but perhaps you could have a look
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Old 30-12-2016, 20:19
blueisthecolour
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I've been to Israel a few times and I spend a lot of time speaking to Israelis - so i'll admit that i'm a little bias on their side. Though something to bear in mind, they are not the homogeneous caricature that some people make out, many Israeli's hate their government and policies as much as left wingers in the UK do. So when you say you are on the 'Israeli's' side you really have to clarify which Israelis you are talking about.

One thing people need to understand is that 'Israel' is not neatly divided by Jewish and Arab settlements, they are scattered almost at random around the region. You have Jewish towns right next to Arab ones - so it's simply impossible to have a two state solution where every Arab gets to live in 'Palestine'. Of course Israel is occupying the West Bank but they see that as a military necessity rather than a land grab - the river Jordan is the natural defensive boundary.

I honestly don't know what the solution is to the conflict there. Israel isn't going to allow an independent Palestine to be created whilst there are armed groups determined to attack them and countries in the region more than willing to give them the support to do so. Also Israel is never going to properly 'absorb' these territories as it doesn't want to 'dilute' future the Jewish nature of the state. And the Palestinians are obviously never going to 'defeat' the Israelis. I assume that it's going to be a very long process where the generations on both sides eventually decide that conflict is no longer in their interest and they decide to a messy peace where Israeli dominance if maintained but they have more independence (like Northern Ireland)
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:35
dosanjh1
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I honestly don't know what the solution is to the conflict there. Israel isn't going to allow an independent Palestine to be created whilst there are armed groups determined to attack them and countries in the region more than willing to give them the support to do so. Also Israel is never going to properly 'absorb' these territories as it doesn't want to 'dilute' future the Jewish nature of the state. And the Palestinians are obviously never going to 'defeat' the Israelis. I assume that it's going to be a very long process where the generations on both sides eventually decide that conflict is no longer in their interest and they decide to a messy peace where Israeli dominance if maintained but they have more independence (like Northern Ireland)
I think you're right. I've always supported the two state solution because it was fair. We're never going to get that and continuing to strive for it will only prolong the misery for those in the West Bank and Gaza.

Arabs in Israel have a better quality of life than Palestinians - the best solution is for people to live their lives as normally as possible, as soon as possible.

The quickest way for this to happen is a 1 state solution.

That won't be acceptable to many on both sides but it's the only way to get normality for the most amount of people in the quickest amount of time.
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:52
jasmin_witkins
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Millions were forced off their land and homes in 1948 with thousands of villages burnt down by zionists! Watch the documentary Al Naqba (The catostrophe) which is on youtube, it will tell you loads.
That 'documentry' is produced by Al Jezerha which is the state run news channel of Qatar, the Arab country which is largest funder of Islamic terrorism in the Middle East.

In 1948 the Arab nations declared war on Israel which is what caused the Nakba to begin with. People often flee from war zones. Just look at Calais.
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:59
Styker
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That 'documentry' is produced by Al Jezerha which is the state run news channel of Qatar, the Arab country which is largest funder of Islamic terrorism in the Middle East.

In 1948 the Arab nations declared war on Israel which is what caused the Nakba to begin with. People often flee from war zones. Just look at Calais.
Israel were forcing Palestinians out of their homes. Hardly any surorise the arabs joined in as they were all part of the Ottomon Empire that was split up by Britain/France.

That documentary did not come across as biased or fake at all, you saying it was full of fake information? Everything I've read on it seems to be the same but this was very forensic indeed.
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