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Israel/Palestinie, Who's Side You On And Why? |
| View Poll Results: Who's Side You On, Israel or Palestine, or Both/Neither? | |||
| Israel |
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47 | 26.86% |
| Palestine |
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46 | 26.29% |
| Both |
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16 | 9.14% |
| Neither |
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66 | 37.71% |
| Voters: 175. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in? | |||
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#51 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,277
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I'm on the side of people trying to live in peace who are getting killed by religious nutters
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#52 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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I think Lebanon is the most liberal country in the Middle East. In Israel - Jewish citizens get preferential treatment in many tenants of life. In Lebanon, it doesn't matter what religion you are. Lebanon is politically, religiously and culturally more diverse also.
The Palestinian Authority has received $45bn in American aidto 'promote democracy' since 1998 and £20m per year from the European Union. Where has all the money gone? |
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#53 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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What a shambles Israel/Palestine is and always has been. Contained by the Romans and Turks, stabilised to a point by the British and French in their own self-interest, and flooded with Jewish refugees fleeing from the horrors of the world it is now a festering crucible of violence, bigotry and nationalism. So what's the solution? How about this. Stop the further encroachment of Paletinian land and fix existing boundaries. Protect them with international troops and guarantees and give the Palestinians their own state. Guarantee the territorial rights of both countries. Pie in the sky? Probably, but what else can be done?
With islam and judaism being so similar then on cultural/religious basis they should be able to live side by side, its the land grabs, forcing the state of israel against the Palestinians agreement which has poisoned everything. It might be better to look at a one state solution with power sharing and for both sides to agree that any wreckers who try and mess things up will be pursued by the authorities and face the lawful consequences etc etc. |
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#54 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,000
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With islam and judaism being so similar then on cultural/religious basis they should be able to live side by side Religion, and Abrahamic religion in particular is built on a foundation of setting itself as superior to the 'other'. |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,739
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I doubt that very much. There were major towns/cities that were taken over by force all over what is now recognised as israel including Haifa. Have you ever watched the documentary Al Naqba which was and still might be on Youtube? Its very informative about the outrages committed against the Palestinians and how the British really stuffed the Palestinians bigtime, especially by training zionists and leaving them military equipment which was used to take Palestine by force in 1948.
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#56 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,165
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Lebanon is basically a training camp for Hezbollah and an Iranian proxy because of it Shia population. It was once mainly Christian, what happened to then all? It's Christian population is now around 20%. You have completely overlooked the effects of the civil war.
The Palestinian Authority has received $45bn in American aidto 'promote democracy' since 1998 and £20m per year from the European Union. Where has all the money gone? For example: Quote:
It was once mainly Christian, what happened to then all? It's Christian population is now around 20%.
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Lebanon is basically a training camp for Hezbollah and an Iranian proxy because of it Shia population.
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#57 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here--------->
Posts: 12,398
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When everyone picks a "side" there is no middle ground, only ever more blinkered extremes.
This is how war and suffering go on for generations. |
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#58 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
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I am on Palestines side. Correct me if I am wrong, but this land was stolen from them because Europe felt guilty about the holocaust.
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What right did Britain have to take away Palestinian land even with a mandate?! What happened to eerr whats it called, self determination?!
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There was an area called Palestine which was part of the Ottomon Empire. After World War 1, Britain and France re-drew the maps of the Ottomon Empire but what right did they have to do that (I mean they didn't re-draw Germany after WW2 per se did they?) and what right did they have to take away and give away Palestine to create Israel without the people living there agreement?
The answer is they didn't have the right, it was a outrageous abuse of power, something Britain, America, Israel in its current being and all other countries who voted to recognise Israel as a country wouldn't accept if it happened to them! Quote:
there is no hope for a two solution, because zionism insist that jerusalem will be the eternal capital for jews.
nobody in the world recognizes israels claim on jerusalem |
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#59 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 214
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The side of innocents on both sides caught between a political/religious pissing contest.
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#60 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,418
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I'm on the side of moderate voices seeking peace, which I'm not sure is true of either 'side' right now.
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#61 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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You are wrong
When and where was this country called Palestine? The West Bank was part of Jordan Well I do for starters |
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#62 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Satanic Mills
Posts: 4,809
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Throughout history the strong have always taken land and resources from the weak. Religeon is just another form of tribalism and there will be conflicts for centuries to come. 24 Hr news and handwringing will not solves anyone's problems.
I still remember watching "Exodus" in 1960. I think the theme tune (IIRC) contains the line - "This land is mine. God gave this land to me......" Hey ho...
Last edited by TeeGee : 30-12-2016 at 18:11. Reason: Link to lyrics |
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#63 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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Throughout history the strong have always taken land and resources from the weak. Religeon is just another form of tribalism and there will be conflicts for centuries to come. 24 Hr news and handwringing will not solves anyone's problems.
I still remember watching "Exodus" in 1960. I think the theme tune (IIRC) contains the line - "This land is mine. God gave this land to me......" Hey ho... ![]() |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,739
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And Israel and its supporters so need to be told that International law is not run on religious law and or what they believe it to be either. I can't believe how their representatives at the UN claim religious rights to Palestine either and that no one tells them the obvious!
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#65 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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Israel is unsurprisingly Cynical when it comes to the biased proclamations of an organisation which elects Saudi Arabia to its Asia group human rights council, in possibly the single most ironic act in history, bearing in mind it's spent the last 18 months bombing Yemeni citizens, a fact which receives scant attention round these parts. It shares that role with those bastions of freedom, China and Iraq. Oh, also Japan.
Cynical? That's rich considering all of israel and its supporters uber double standards with their false claims of anti semtism to try and shut down criticism.scare critics off! |
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#66 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
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The answer to your question (rhetorical too it seems) was in the post of mine that you quoted! Palestine was part of the ottomon emprie, that was the recognised country. In any case, you shouldn't have to be a country to not lose your land/homes! Or would you be ok with a "squatter" coming round your home, chucking you out and saying this is mine now as you're not a country therefore its ok for me to take over it?!
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#67 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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And Israel and its supporters so need to be told that International law is not run on religious law and or what they believe it to be either. I can't believe how their representatives at the UN claim religious rights to Palestine either and that no one tells them the obvious!
Do you know there is a Jew limit on Temple Mount incase it offends Muslims. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London
Posts: 12,939
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I mean they didn't re-draw Germany after WW2 per se did they?
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#69 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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How many Palestinian homes have been destroyed or occupied ?
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#70 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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Is that different to claiming Jerusalem because Muhammad allegedly flew over it on a winged horse?
Do you know there is a Jew limit on Temple Mount incase it offends Muslims. Quote:
Yes they did there are a number of traditionally German regions and towns that are now part of either France, Poland or Russia.
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#71 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 8,253
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Palestinians want their land and homes back because it was their land/homes before it was stolen off them! The Palestinians have their beliefs too but that is not their main claim to the land unlike Israel and its supporters, many of whom are not jewish, their ancestors never lived there but they are Zionists choosing to add fuel to the fire on this in general, trouble makers I'd call them!
News to me, was that by force, what happened? Where are the outcries about it? If people agreed to it then thats their choice. Palestinians did not agree to their land being taken off them etc... |
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#72 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 10,839
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I've been to Israel a few times and I spend a lot of time speaking to Israelis - so i'll admit that i'm a little bias on their side. Though something to bear in mind, they are not the homogeneous caricature that some people make out, many Israeli's hate their government and policies as much as left wingers in the UK do. So when you say you are on the 'Israeli's' side you really have to clarify which Israelis you are talking about.
One thing people need to understand is that 'Israel' is not neatly divided by Jewish and Arab settlements, they are scattered almost at random around the region. You have Jewish towns right next to Arab ones - so it's simply impossible to have a two state solution where every Arab gets to live in 'Palestine'. Of course Israel is occupying the West Bank but they see that as a military necessity rather than a land grab - the river Jordan is the natural defensive boundary. I honestly don't know what the solution is to the conflict there. Israel isn't going to allow an independent Palestine to be created whilst there are armed groups determined to attack them and countries in the region more than willing to give them the support to do so. Also Israel is never going to properly 'absorb' these territories as it doesn't want to 'dilute' future the Jewish nature of the state. And the Palestinians are obviously never going to 'defeat' the Israelis. I assume that it's going to be a very long process where the generations on both sides eventually decide that conflict is no longer in their interest and they decide to a messy peace where Israeli dominance if maintained but they have more independence (like Northern Ireland) |
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#73 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,789
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I honestly don't know what the solution is to the conflict there. Israel isn't going to allow an independent Palestine to be created whilst there are armed groups determined to attack them and countries in the region more than willing to give them the support to do so. Also Israel is never going to properly 'absorb' these territories as it doesn't want to 'dilute' future the Jewish nature of the state. And the Palestinians are obviously never going to 'defeat' the Israelis. I assume that it's going to be a very long process where the generations on both sides eventually decide that conflict is no longer in their interest and they decide to a messy peace where Israeli dominance if maintained but they have more independence (like Northern Ireland)
Arabs in Israel have a better quality of life than Palestinians - the best solution is for people to live their lives as normally as possible, as soon as possible. The quickest way for this to happen is a 1 state solution. That won't be acceptable to many on both sides but it's the only way to get normality for the most amount of people in the quickest amount of time. |
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#74 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
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Millions were forced off their land and homes in 1948 with thousands of villages burnt down by zionists! Watch the documentary Al Naqba (The catostrophe) which is on youtube, it will tell you loads.
In 1948 the Arab nations declared war on Israel which is what caused the Nakba to begin with. People often flee from war zones. Just look at Calais. |
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#75 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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That 'documentry' is produced by Al Jezerha which is the state run news channel of Qatar, the Arab country which is largest funder of Islamic terrorism in the Middle East.
In 1948 the Arab nations declared war on Israel which is what caused the Nakba to begin with. People often flee from war zones. Just look at Calais. That documentary did not come across as biased or fake at all, you saying it was full of fake information? Everything I've read on it seems to be the same but this was very forensic indeed. |
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