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Old 30-12-2016, 12:49
Ovalteenie
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You only need one lesson on the motorway to get a feel for it and to know what to expect/do driving on one. Having spent so much surely the cost of one more lesson is money well spent?
Yes I agree with you
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:51
Flowes
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Yes I agree with you
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:53
Ovalteenie
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This is what I was thinking.
A motorway is essentially a dual carriageway with extra lanes. I'm also sure that driving on a dual carriageway was a requirement on the test when I passed 11 years ago?

The fear seems to come from people thinking a motorway is a lot worse than they actually are. Them not being part of lessons or the test also makes it seem as something for advanced drivers who've been driving for years.

The week after I passed my test we had a football match to go to 60 miles away. We'd previously been making this trip on the train but as I'd finally got my licence decided to drive.

I was initially going to take the A5 but my dad suggested going M1/M6 and said just make sure you're checking your mirrors regularly and watching out for others. We left early morning about 7am to avoid some of the Saturday traffic and we bumped into one of our friends at the petrol station who was on his way to work. When we told him where we were going he seemed quite shocked that I was going to use the motorway a week after my test. He'd actually passed his own test several months before and admitted he'd not been on a motorway yet as he didn't feel ready for it.
I too waited several months before going on motorway... I wanted to feel comfortable with non-motorway driving first... dual carriageways are good practice for learning to merge and change lanes
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:53
voteout
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I don't mind the idea in principle, but I can see problems if learners are on motorways alongside non-qualified instructors. The speeds involved are too high for some kid to be on the motorway with his dad, who may well be a bad driver on the motorway himself. Much more potential for nasty accidents than in the middle of town.
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:56
gomezz
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I doubt they will have the dual-control car used by qualified instructors.

Presumably if the car is not fully liveried and signed but just has slap on magnetic L plates then the police and highway authorities will be beckoning them to follow them off the motorway.

I learnt from trolling up and down the A1 dual-carriageway between Yorkshire and Northants.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:09
SaddlerSteve
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I doubt they will have the dual-control car used by qualified instructors.

Presumably if the car is not fully liveried and signed but just has slap on magnetic L plates then the police and highway authorities will be beckoning them to follow them off the motorway.

I learnt from trolling up and down the A1 dual-carriageway between Yorkshire and Northants.
To be honest I think they should do away with allowing unqualified instructors. I've encountered a few qualified instructors doing silly things but far, far more with magnetic plates just slapped on and their friends or family instructing doing stupid things. As you say, their own driving is likely to be pretty bad so they're just passing on their own bad habits.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:38
Ovalteenie
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To be honest I think they should do away with allowing unqualified instructors. I've encountered a few qualified instructors doing silly things but far, far more with magnetic plates just slapped on and their friends or family instructing doing stupid things. As you say, their own driving is likely to be pretty bad so they're just passing on their own bad habits.
I saw a hired dual control car yesterday in Glasgow (I think it was Arnold Clark). I think some people do that to save money on lessons from qualified instructors. But I agree with you. I only had formal lessons and booked blocks of 2-hour lessons - I think I spent over £1000 in total of lessons before I passed
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:52
eggchen
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I think its a good idea. It took me years to brave a motorway after passing my test.
I was dying to have a go on the motorway so I used the one near to me to make my way home from the test. This was back in 1991, and I had my mum with me at the time because I took the test in her Vauxhall Nova
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:12
David (2)
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There should be some tuition for motorway driving. If people are expected to use motorways after passing their test, then surely there must be some tuition prior to taking the test.

A dual carriage way may serve as a substitute but some of these don't have slip roads etc, and might only last a couple of miles. Some roads look like dual carriage ways but actually each lane is marked with a very specific purpose (turn left or turn right, etc). A further option would be a simulator where no motorway or proper dual carriage way is within sensible distance. What will still happen tho, if compusary, is that the smaller, more remote test centres will disappear.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:43
LostFool
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I'm not so sure that would be the case now, especially as so many dual carriageways are now 50 mph or, very often, lower.
Then again some "dual carriageways" are actually three (or sometimes 4) lane roads with grade separated junctions. The only real difference with actual motorways is the lack of hard shoulder and that the road signs are green rather than blue.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:47
InMyArms
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Once their qualified driving instructor has determined that they are up to a standard that they should be able to pass a test I don't see why it should be a problem that they be allowed to go on there. Better to have their first time on the motorway with a trained professional than on their own after they have passed their test.

I passed in February and it took me a while to pluck up the courage to go on the motorway for the first time. I would have preferred to do it with my instructor but wasn't going to give over even more money if I didn't have to. I would have been safer had my instructor been able to take me on it before my test. I passed my test first time, but I didn't magically become a better driver the moment I passed a 40 minute test.
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:10
paulschapman
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38464776

Seems a bit mad to me.
Will they be able to join the motorway and get up to speed? Dual control is good for stopping, but how do you get up to speed?
It's bad enough when you meet some oap going at 45, let alone some leaner going slow.

Why not have compulsory lessons once they have passed their test, before they can use the motorway?
When I took my test 27 years ago my driving instructor took me out on a dual carriageway so I would get an idea of driving on a motorway. Managed it perfectly fine.

To be honest it is nuts for someone to be faced with a motorway without any guidance after passing their test - which is often the first time that a person uses a slip road to enter a road
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:19
grumpyscot
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If you really want some scary motorway driving, try the M8 from Edinburgh to Glasgow Airport. It has exits and entrances on the RIGHT HAND SIDE (Charing Cross in Glasgow).

And for real madness, try the M4 the M40. Even with bad fog, drivers still do 80mph in the middle lane...... without fog lights!
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Old 31-12-2016, 09:36
MAW
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Exactly. Nearest motorway to a friend of mine is 310 miles - and takes about 15 hours to get there - by ferry for the first 200 miles!

Another friend is 200 miles from a motorway, again needs a ferry and takes 7 hours to get there!
There are no motorways on any of the British islands, it's not just Scotland. Though clearly your distances are the greatest.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:09
Trulytrue
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If you really want some scary motorway driving, try the M8 from Edinburgh to Glasgow Airport. It has exits and entrances on the RIGHT HAND SIDE (Charing Cross in Glasgow).

And for real madness, try the M4 the M40. Even with bad fog, drivers still do 80mph in the middle lane...... without fog lights!
Australia have exits and entrances both sides of the motorway or they did on the ones I went on. The thought of that is worse than it is.

The other point speaks for every motorway and duel carriageway in the UK. Some people really do think only they know how to drive in bad conditions and so its OK to drive faster than others.

Some cars also have advantage over other cars so that needs to be taken into account.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:18
bri160356
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Once their qualified driving instructor has determined that they are up to a standard that they should be able to pass a test I don't see why it should be a problem that they be allowed to go on there. Better to have their first time on the motorway with a trained professional than on their own after they have passed their test.

I passed in February and it took me a while to pluck up the courage to go on the motorway for the first time. I would have preferred to do it with my instructor but wasn't going to give over even more money if I didn't have to. I would have been safer had my instructor been able to take me on it before my test. I passed my test first time, but I didn't magically become a better driver the moment I passed a 40 minute test.
Learner drivers don’t have the necessary skill to drive on a motorway;…however, someone who has passed their practical driving test has the necessary skills to tackle motorway driving. That’s always been the legal position and personally I’m fine with that.

Are there any alarming stats to back-up these claims of 1st time motorway drivers causing mayhem ?,…I think not.

Sure, first time m/way driving can be stressful but you quickly get into the flow. You’ve already demonstrated in your ‘test’ that you have the necessary skills to judge speeds, control the car , indicate, use mirrors et al.

I’m not decrying the ‘Pass Plus’ system by the way;.. and if people feel they need it then all well and good.

However, compulsory ‘Pass Plus’ motorway tuition just isn’t practical, for geographic reasons,…and there is still the challenge of doing it ‘alone’ for the first time even if you’ve had an accompanied lesson previously.

How many newly qualified drivers didn’t feel a twinge of nervousness when they drove ‘alone’ for the very first time even on normal roads?

An instructor teaches you how to pass your ‘test’;…you only really start learning how to drive (which is a lifelong ongoing process) when you’re out there making your own decisions.

No,.. I’m not inordinately worried about newly qualified drivers on m/ways;

…It’s the very small proportion of ‘experienced’ motorway nutters that need bringing into line, IMHO.

P.S. years ago my brother’s wife had an ‘uneventful’ Pass-Plus motorway lesson after she’d passed her test;…however, it terrified her so much she’s never driven on a m/way again,…not once!....she’s quite happy and very confident/competent everywhere else though.

My brother has tried for years to get her to tackle a m/way on her own but she just can’t;…I often wonder if she’d done it alone the very first time if things would have been different;…we’ll never know.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:20
RobinOfLoxley
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Just because you have a modern crash resistant car and can stop better than an old banger doen't give you Carte Blanche to drive irresponsibly.

No-one should be doing 80mph in fog. Sometimes even 20mph is too fast.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:22
elliecat
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I had a motorway lesson after passing my test, went on 4 different motorways (M4,M3,M25,M40). It was the best thing I could have done, I use those motorways frequently. I think motorway lessons should be made compulsory, no matter how confident a driver you are.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:27
David (2)
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Just because you have a modern crash resistant car and can stop better than an old banger doen't give you Carte Blanche to drive irresponsibly.

No-one should be doing 80mph in fog. Sometimes even 20mph is too fast.

....and they should be taught to switch on fog lights, or any lights at all in thick fog......quite shocking the number of drivers going round with absolutely zero lights on in this thick fog. No wonder accidents are happening!

If there's a line of 5 cars in thick fog, there will be about 2 ediots without any lights on at all, while a further 1 will think tiny side lights or running lights (DRL which usually doesn't light up anything on the back of the car) is perfectly fine.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:35
anne_666
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38464776

Seems a bit mad to me.
Will they be able to join the motorway and get up to speed? Dual control is good for stopping, but how do you get up to speed?
It's bad enough when you meet some oap going at 45, let alone some leaner going slow.

Why not have compulsory lessons once they have passed their test, before they can use the motorway?
About time, it should have always been part of the process.
It's a farce when learner drivers are allowed to use more dangerous dual carriageways. Getting up to speed on a slip road isn't unique to motorways and hopefully nor is knowing how to brake

I don't drive on motorways even so many years after my test I don't feel qualified to do so, we need to encourage people not confident to keep off them tbh I'd feel I was a danger to others if I did go on one. So this idea of learners on there seems madness to me, leave those roads to people who are able to use them safely !
Mollie, if you can drive on a dual carriageway you're more than capable of driving on a motorway. They're probably the safest and easiest roads to drive on.
This is what can happen when they're presented as some kind of mythical major challenge above any learner drivers capability. Yet they can pass their test and choose to head off home via the nearest motorway.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:40
bri160356
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Just because you have a modern crash resistant car and can stop better than an old banger doen't give you Carte Blanche to drive irresponsibly.

No-one should be doing 80mph in fog. Sometimes even 20mph is too fast.
I always hammer along at full speed so I can get home as quickly as possible;

......driving in that stuff can be dangerous!
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:45
David (2)
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I nearly forgot, I saw a bus emerge from the fog - without any lights on.
Seemed strange because they almost always have them switched on. So who thought it was a good idea to turn them off on the day when u really need them? I would like to understand the thought process there........it's getting hard to see, I will switch off my lights.....that's better!
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:49
Trulytrue
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I nearly forgot, I saw a bus emerge from the fog - without any lights on.
Seemed strange because they almost always have them switched on. So who thought it was a good idea to turn them off on the day when u really need them? I would like to understand the thought process there........it's getting hard to see, I will switch off my lights.....that's better!
Strange post

Maybe they have been off for a long time.. Maybe someone turned them off on a sunny day. Maybe they thought they were on.
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Old 31-12-2016, 10:55
David_Flett1
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I don't drive on motorways even so many years after my test I don't feel qualified to do so, we need to encourage people not confident to keep off them tbh I'd feel I was a danger to others if I did go on one. So this idea of learners on there seems madness to me, leave those roads to people who are able to use them safely !
Do you avoid dual carraigeways? Some dual carraigeways can be far more challenging than motorways and yet you drive at the same speed or worse challenged by the same idiotic drivers but in more dangerous surroundings.
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Old 31-12-2016, 11:01
bri160356
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I nearly forgot, I saw a bus emerge from the fog - without any lights on.
Seemed strange
because they almost always have them switched on. So who thought it was a good idea to turn them off on the day when u really need them? I would like to understand the thought process there........it's getting hard to see, I will switch off my lights.....that's better!
...it's very strange,...did the driver look like this?
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