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Casual Female on Male Violence in Soaps?


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Old 30-12-2016, 12:56
lulu g
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River City did a brilliant same-sex domestic abuse storyline between Will and Robbie. It's a pity the show isn't broadcast nationally as it was very well done.
Yes, they did, and even before that, so did Hollyoaks.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:09
TheGraduate2012
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Yes, they did, and even before that, so did Hollyoaks.
Yes, of course - Ste and Brendan. I never liked Brendan though, so struggled to invest in 'Stendan'. Plus, at the time, I kind of felt Ste got a taste of his own medicine for abusing Amy
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:09
Creamtea
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Remember when Phil slapped Sharon in the Vic years ago? There was mayhem, but then how many times has she slapped him?
I remember that. It was quite shocking as she hit him first, then he slapped her right back and everyone went apesh!t!!! She was as bad as him in that situation as she hit him first, obviously not expecting to get the same back.
Corrie have been terrible for this over the years. Not long after the Tyrone and Kirsty storyline, which did lots to highlight female on male domestic violence, they reverted to type by having Michelle abuse Steve and treat it like comedy!!!
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:12
TheGraduate2012
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Yes, I'd rather see the 'strong woman' use tongue and her brain rather than the back of her hand.

Of course, not all women are 'strong women', even in real life.
Me too.

Very true - I just want interesting, three dimensional characters (strong or otherwise) instead of sitcom characters.

Also, 'strong' is open to interpretation anyway. I mean, I think of Little Mo from EE as a strong woman because of what she went through with Trevor, although she was portrayed as a mousy, battered wife.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:15
TheGraduate2012
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I remember that. It was quite shocking as she hit him first, then he slapped her right back and everyone went apesh!t!!! She was as bad as him in that situation as she hit him first, obviously not expecting to get the same back.
Corrie have been terrible for this over the years. Not long after the Tyrone and Kirsty storyline which did lots to highlight female on male domestic violence they reverted to type by having Michelle abuse Steve and treat it like comedy!!!
Yep. It's sad, because it kind of undermines all the effort they made to raise awareness during the Kirsty/Tyrone storyline. It's as if that never happened now, to be honest.

I can understand shock at a man hitting a woman, like most, as physically they are likely to do more damage, but in no way should anyone hit anyone based on the assumption that they'll get a free pass.
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Old 30-12-2016, 13:23
lulu g
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Me too.

Very true - I just want interesting, three dimensional characters (strong or otherwise) instead of sitcom characters.

Also, 'strong' is open to interpretation anyway. I mean, I think of Little Mo from EE as a strong woman because of what she went through with Trevor, although she was portrayed as a mousy, battered wife.
Good point. There are different kinds of strength. Often the strength of quieter people (both male and female) goes unrecognized.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:08
Andybear
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Well if they have reduced the amount of female against male violence it certainly wasn't the case in ED last night where Joanie punched a male character squarely in the face so hard it knocked him down but at least they showed the consequences of such action she was arrested for assault afterwards.
I'd have done the same as Joanie if I wasn't a wuss! (which I am). That bloke was horrible. OK Kerry's a tart but the way he carried on, the way he treated her, was totally out of order. Joanie was just looking out for Kerry as she can see she's on a bit of a downward spiral following her split from Dan. I should say I don't condone violence as a rule but I do understand why Joanie did what she did.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:24
James_Langan
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Isn't it just? Michelle and Steve are the worst example of this in recent times. I can't stand what a buffoon Steve has been turned into. Although Karen was a typical "gobby cow", Steve was never as submissive with her as he is with "'Chelle"

Tim and Sally are bad as well but I don't know if they pull off this rountine better because they are both made to appear comedic/ridiculous. Tim is a buffoon, but Sally is also played up as eccentric and neurotic too. They kind of balance each other out, whereas we are almost expect to sympathise with Poor 'Chelle

This aspect of soap writing has always annoyed me. I get they are meant to have a working-class sentiment but it's so horribly simplistic to perpetuate the idea that working-class people are unintelligent or that to be interested in academics/school/college/uni makes you somehow 'lesser'. It so untrue to modern life, working-class kids are usually the hardest working these days.

Johnny He has become 'cartooned' because he's at That Uni



I forgot Sharon had slapped Phil first in that scene. That's even more frustrating them - don't dish it out and expect not to get it back.



Yes - Matt, that was it? Tina was so over the top. Maybe he was a tad on the snobby side, but all he did was suggest she get out of that grotty pub and do something with her life, and then he hold her the party they were going to was posh/fancy.

He should've let her turn up in her trackies and hula-hoop earrings
Why do you allow someone to use the phrase working class towards anyone. Why aren't they called out on it the same way racists and bigots, fat shaming and body shaming, sexual orientation and disabilities are. That phrase is a put down to dismiss your ability to engage in intelligent conversation and act in a proper fashion. The next time someone uses that phrase in your presence call them on it, because if I see anyone on the forum classify someone as working class I'll rip them a new one. That shit has to be stopped. It's unacceptable and biased language.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:27
Mel94
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I remember a scene on Corrie some years ago where Tracy slapped Steve then he rang the police in front of her, she was continuing to shout at him and he held his phone towards her so the operator would hear her. I can't imagine him doing something like that now, I know he's had depression and that of course grinds down your self confidence, but since they've put him back with Michelle, he's barely been allowed to have his own opinion. He basically just goes along with whatever she says, just to have an easy life. They only put him back with her because Becky left.

Also, there has been another recent instance of female on male violence in Emmerdale. Moira slapped Cain twice, yet she looked scared and horrified at him when she dared him to hit her and he almost did.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:29
Wong_Billabong
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In my uni days and teens it was the same in society - girls would throw their drink over men and it's fine but if nyone threw anything on them it'd be like how disgusting someone could do it to a girl - same with hitting - it's wrong both sexes
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:32
samcains90
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Also, there has been another recent instance of female on male violence in Emmerdale. Moira slapped Cain twice, yet she looked scared and horrified at him when she dared him to hit her and he almost did.
Yes, I was more surprised that he restrained himself - those were some hard slaps she gave him.
What worried me more was that those scenes were meant to be smouldering and sexual.

Also recently on Emmerdale, Paddy getting slapped by 3 women in the same episode for comedy.
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Old 30-12-2016, 14:43
Hollyoaks14
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In my uni days and teens it was the same in society - girls would throw their drink over men and it's fine but if nyone threw anything on them it'd be like how disgusting someone could do it to a girl - same with hitting - it's wrong both sexes
That rule is so stupid - if a woman slapped me then I would do it back!

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Old 30-12-2016, 15:23
firefly_irl
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Despite it being nearly 2017 soaps really do hold on to many things that are very outdated, the constant changing a woman's name when she's married for example, while women still do it in reality in soapland every woman seems to do it, then when she does get divorced doesn't even revert to her maiden name, just a previous married name. Like Carla going back to Connor and now Kaffy going back to Beale, surely both would have gone back to their maiden names in reality.

Women on male violence is acceptable in soaps as is having male characters fulfill very old school husband roles about "providing" for the family.
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Old 30-12-2016, 15:28
TheGraduate2012
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Why do you allow someone to use the phrase working class towards anyone. Why aren't they called out on it the same way racists and bigots, fat shaming and body shaming, sexual orientation and disabilities are. That phrase is a put down to dismiss your ability to engage in intelligent conversation and act in a proper fashion. The next time someone uses that phrase in your presence call them on it, because if I see anyone on the forum classify someone as working class I'll rip them a new one. That shit has to be stopped. It's unacceptable and biased language.
I don't mind being called working class, personally. I don't think most people consider it derogatory.
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Old 30-12-2016, 16:17
TheGraduate2012
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Good point. There are different kinds of strength. Often the strength of quieter people (both male and female) goes unrecognized.
And you tend to find that quieter, seemingly more shy, people are the most together at the worst of times.

In my uni days and teens it was the same in society - girls would throw their drink over men and it's fine but if nyone threw anything on them it'd be like how disgusting someone could do it to a girl - same with hitting - it's wrong both sexes
Definitely isn't acceptable either way.

Yes, I was more surprised that he restrained himself - those were some hard slaps she gave him.
What worried me more was that those scenes were meant to be smouldering and sexual.

Also recently on Emmerdale, Paddy getting slapped by 3 women in the same episode for comedy.
That sounds like it belongs on a different type of show

Despite it being nearly 2017 soaps really do hold on to many things that are very outdated, the constant changing a woman's name when she's married for example, while women still do it in reality in soapland every woman seems to do it, then when she does get divorced doesn't even revert to her maiden name, just a previous married name. Like Carla going back to Connor and now Kaffy going back to Beale, surely both would have gone back to their maiden names in reality.

Women on male violence is acceptable in soaps as is having male characters fulfill very old school husband roles about "providing" for the family.
Or, in soaps, they go back to their maiden name only to get re-married in a flash and change it again

True again - oftentimes male characters are shown to be ashamed of having low-paid jobs as well, whereas most female characters work in cafes, pubs, shops etc.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:18
trevon1
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I agree that this female to male violence in soaps is wrong and needs to be stopped. I don't want to see it rectified by having the men hit the women back though. It just needs to be retired as a trope. Or at least when that happens have the man verbally stand up for himself.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:26
James_Langan
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I don't mind being called working class, personally. I don't think most people consider it derogatory.
You may not personally, but it doesn't make it less derogatory. I recently called somebody out who thought it was fun to mention Polish people were dishonest and sellers of stolen goods. I'm sure the poster thought others would see it as typical Polish behavior. I would put it in the same light as saying typical working class behavior. Who has the right to hang a name on a percentage of a population and use it sometimes as a slur on your character or upbringing or mentality. I at one time posted on the forum to ask people to stop referring to others as chavs. We have enough in our lives without remarks that are not meant as terms of endearment.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:29
acid rain
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Why do you allow someone to use the phrase working class towards anyone. Why aren't they called out on it the same way racists and bigots, fat shaming and body shaming, sexual orientation and disabilities are. That phrase is a put down to dismiss your ability to engage in intelligent conversation and act in a proper fashion. The next time someone uses that phrase in your presence call them on it, because if I see anyone on the forum classify someone as working class I'll rip them a new one. That shit has to be stopped. It's unacceptable and biased language.

But many people describe themselves as 'working class.'

There are people who often boast about being working class, so it's not like everyone sees it as a put down.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:31
acid rain
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Corrie did it well with the Tyrone storyline.

What we see rarer in soap is same sex domestic violence.

In Eastenders there was Tina and her girlfriend.

But it was quite a shortlived storyline so it will most likely have been forgotten.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:33
acid rain
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Is it just me or does there seem to have been a sharp downturn in the so-called 'casual' female-on-male violence that soap writers have traditionally been so fond of?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there seems a lot less slapping, hitting & drink-throwing (aka Model Matriarch Behaviour) from the ladies of the soapworld of late? Does anyone agree? Have soap writers recognised how dated this was/is?

Personally, I hope so, as it used to be a fact about soaps that irked me. Whenever there's been a male-on-female abuse storyline it has been a massive talking point, but then the female characters would carry on slapping, hitting and swilling drinks at their partners like it was nobody's business.

I know there's probably still similar instances of female-on-female/male-on-male violence but I guess, sadly, that is more reflective of 'real life' anyway.

Female on male violence is still quite common in Emmerdale.

Before Christmas Paddy was slapped by two women repeatedy.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:38
attitude99
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Isn't it just? Michelle and Steve are the worst example of this in recent times. I can't stand what a buffoon Steve has been turned into. Although Karen was a typical "gobby cow", Steve was never as submissive with her as he is with "'Chelle"

Tim and Sally are bad as well but I don't know if they pull off this rountine better because they are both made to appear comedic/ridiculous. Tim is a buffoon, but Sally is also played up as eccentric and neurotic too. They kind of balance each other out, whereas we are almost expect to sympathise with Poor 'Chelle

This aspect of soap writing has always annoyed me. I get they are meant to have a working-class sentiment but it's so horribly simplistic to perpetuate the idea that working-class people are unintelligent or that to be interested in academics/school/college/uni makes you somehow 'lesser'. It so untrue to modern life, working-class kids are usually the hardest working these days.

Johnny He has become 'cartooned' because he's at That Uni

I forgot Sharon had slapped Phil first in that scene. That's even more frustrating them - don't dish it out and expect not to get it back.

Yes - Matt, that was it? Tina was so over the top. Maybe he was a tad on the snobby side, but all he did was suggest she get out of that grotty pub and do something with her life, and then he hold her the party they were going to was posh/fancy.

He should've let her turn up in her trackies and hula-hoop earrings
Yeah exactly we are supposed to empathise with MissHell but really I feel for Steve having to put up with her, I couldn't cope. She doesn't even allow Steve an opinion and he is happy to go with whatever she wants, essentially making him a doormat.

That type of soap writing seems lazy to me, characters are happy to put up working in businesses on their doorstep rather than go and further their own education and have a real career. Like Sarah from Corrie, she came back and was happy to work in the Rovers after being in Milan for eight years working in fashion!

It was a frustrating scene, I was surprised that people went apeshit over it, it's not like Sharon didn't provoke him first. Another scene I can recall was when Todd found out Sarah had slept with Jason and he slapped her, that was shocking but if Sarah had slapped Todd it would have been acceptable and justified, however since it was Todd he probably would have been strung up for it.

Yes, they did, and even before that, so did Hollyoaks.
I liked Stendan as a pairing but the abuse storyline to me always seemed like karma for Ste after what he did to Amy a few years earlier. The story from River City was excellently portrayed as well and was very realistic. EastEnders tried to do it with Tina and Tosh in 2014 but it was forgotten about and got lost in the sea of Who Killed Lucy. There was a harrowing end to an episode where Tosh beat her up and she was really bloody and bruised from it, but it was a shame the story didn't last long.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:04
James_Langan
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But many people describe themselves as 'working class.'

There are people who often boast about being working class, so it's not like everyone sees it as a put down.
There are black people who use the n word to describe themselves and you could probably find some who boast about it but would anyone you know or anyone on the forum use the n word? It would be derogatory and I don't think there would be any confusion about that. Maybe I'm a voice in the wilderness here.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:24
TheGraduate2012
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Yeah exactly we are supposed to empathise with MissHell but really I feel for Steve having to put up with her, I couldn't cope. She doesn't even allow Steve an opinion and he is happy to go with whatever she wants, essentially making him a doormat.

That type of soap writing seems lazy to me, characters are happy to put up working in businesses on their doorstep rather than go and further their own education and have a real career. Like Sarah from Corrie, she came back and was happy to work in the Rovers after being in Milan for eight years working in fashion!

It was a frustrating scene, I was surprised that people went apeshit over it, it's not like Sharon didn't provoke him first. Another scene I can recall was when Todd found out Sarah had slept with Jason and he slapped her, that was shocking but if Sarah had slapped Todd it would have been acceptable and justified, however since it was Todd he probably would have been strung up for it.
MissHell I forgot about that nickname

I remember Todd slapping Sarah but not sure how it went down at the time. I think his being gay kind of overshadowed it.

It does come off as very lazy, doesn't it? It's not like Sarah is such a pivotal character that she needs to be 'around' so much. She could easily have a job in town and then be 'seen' by us at home with her kids. This is what I think RC and HO do better - people are allowed lives away from their neighbourhoods. The people that work in the pub/cafes are predominantly the owners and their families - not a new neighbour every six months. EE and Corrie are too self-contained.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:29
TheGraduate2012
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I liked Stendan as a pairing but the abuse storyline to me always seemed like karma for Ste after what he did to Amy a few years earlier. The story from River City was excellently portrayed as well and was very realistic. EastEnders tried to do it with Tina and Tosh in 2014 but it was forgotten about and got lost in the sea of Who Killed Lucy. There was a harrowing end to an episode where Tosh beat her up and she was really bloody and bruised from it, but it was a shame the story didn't last long.
The Tosh/Tina abuse storyline failed for me because it seemed to go from 0 to 100 in no time at all. Tosh started off as a bit of a bitch then, all of a sudden, battered Tina.... and then she just vanished. A very poorly constructed storyline with, frankly, unimpressive characters.

Will and Robbie, on the other hand, was built up over time which gave you the opportunity to 'get to know' that characters and so the plot was so much more believable.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:37
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There are black people who use the n word to describe themselves and you could probably find some who boast about it but would anyone you know or anyone on the forum use the n word? It would be derogatory and I don't think there would be any confusion about that. Maybe I'm a voice in the wilderness here.
The problem is that the self-censorship we practice these days in the ernest desire to not offend anybody is slowly taking away our ability to describe anybody in an easily identifiable manner at all. What would you have us call the working class, "C2DEs"? Most people wouldn't have a clue what you meant. And if we shouldn't say "working class", presumably we also shouldn't refer to middle class either and on and on it goes.
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