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FTSE 100 down 5 per cent over the year in dollar terms


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Old 30-12-2016, 16:54
tahiti
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Last night, Conservative MP Michael Gove, who campaigned for Vote Leave, tweeted that the FTSE had hit a record high “despite Brexit”.

Yet economists have cut the UK’s growth forecast for next year on the back of the Brexit vote.

So what is going on in the market, and what does it mean?

Why is the FTSE 100 rallying?

Part of the answer is that the decent growth of the FTSE 100 is itself a simple currency effect.

The pound is currently down about 10 per cent against the euro since the EU referendum in June, and is 17 per cent weaker against the US dollar.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7502401.html

Brexiters appear to have recently discovered devaluation as an economic cure-all.

Good for the UK we are asked to believe, and would be good for Greece, Italy , France etc. also good for Venezuela and Zimbabwe , oh wait perhaps not these.

Just another sign of the archaic nature of their understanding of economic policy.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:00
RRL
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I know Americans think the dollar is all but it really isn't and the FTSE for one thing is not measured in dollars.

For a reality check the FTSE is actually at a record high

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38467258
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:04
tahiti
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I know Americans think the dollar is all but it really isn't and the FTSE for one thing is not measured in dollars.

For a reality check the FTSE is actually at a record high

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38467258
And if you had bothered to read the post you would understand that this is an artificial effect of the Sterling devaluation.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:10
MargMck
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I know Americans think the dollar is all but it really isn't and the FTSE for one thing is not measured in dollars.

For a reality check the FTSE is actually at a record high

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38467258
Yep, the usual nonsense thread. But the anguish fascinates me.
For what it's worth, here's the Guardian version on 'the best performing European market'
https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-donald-trump
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:16
tahiti
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Yep, the usual nonsense thread. But the anguish fascinates me.
For what it's worth, here's the Guardian version on 'the best performing European market'
https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-donald-trump
Precisely the same information I'm afraid: the FTSE has been artificially pumped up, point wise, by the Sterling devaluation following the referendum.

Perhaps we should devalue Sterling by another 20% then ? or is that the plan anyway ?
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:20
MargMck
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Precisely the same information I'm afraid: the FTSE has been artificially pumped up, point wise, by the Sterling devaluation following the referendum.

Perhaps we should devalue Sterling by another 20% then ? or is that the plan anyway ?
What a terrible day it would be for you and TheEngineer (and where on earth is NetNut?) if something could not be cobbled together online from the crazy wing of the Independent or an even more obscure website to suggest GB is going down the pan.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:25
tahiti
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What a terrible day it would be for you and TheEngineer (and where on earth is NetNut?) if something could not be cobbled together online from the crazy wing of the Independent or an even more obscure website to suggest GB is going down the pan.
so you are neither disputing that the FTSE in down 5 % yoy when rebased on an international benchmark, nor that Sterlng devaluation seems the one and only policy of Brexiters to keep the UK going, should we leap into the abyss ?
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:30
MargMck
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so you are neither disputing that the FTSE in down 5 % yoy when rebased on an international benchmark, nor that Sterlng devaluation seems the one and only policy of Brexiters to keep the UK going, should we leap into the abyss ?
If you must - In January we can start a new game of thread title bingo - The Abyss of A50 sounds good, if that helps.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:30
RRL
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so you are neither disputing that the FTSE in down 5 % yoy when rebased on an international benchmark, nor that Sterlng devaluation seems the one and only policy of Brexiters to keep the UK going, should we leap into the abyss ?
why would you need to rebase the FTSE on an international benchmark when it is already measured in a currency that is an international benchmark.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:43
tahiti
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why would you need to rebase the FTSE on an international benchmark when it is already measured in a currency that is an international benchmark.
By your own ridiculous Brexiter logic we should have all invested in the Venezuela stock market because that was the best performing in 2016 :

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...st-an-illusion

Sterling in now very much an emerging market currency, due to you Brexiters, hence the illusory performance of the FTSE !

if only Zimbabwe had a functioning stock market eh, all Brexiters would be rich.
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Old 30-12-2016, 17:49
RRL
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By your own ridiculous Brexiter logic we should have all invested in the Venezuela stock market because that was the best performing in 2016 :

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...st-an-illusion

Sterling in now very much an emerging market currency, due to you Brexiters, hence the illusory performance of the FTSE !

if only Zimbabwe had a functioning stock market eh, all Brexiters would be rich.

And the US economy is doing just dandy in your little world I guess

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

still what is $20 trillion between friends eh?
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:06
TheEngineer
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And the US economy is doing just dandy in your little world I guess

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

still what is $20 trillion between friends eh?
So if the US is that bad - how much worse must Sterling be viewed for it to have lost so much value against the dollar?

The ironic thing is that there are individuals and companies looking at this as a "once in a generation" opportunity to buy up UK assets on the cheap. Imagine those Brexiteers when they find out the house they are renting is owned by a "foreigner"
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:15
RRL
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So if the US is that bad - how much worse must Sterling be viewed for it to have lost so much value against the dollar?

The ironic thing is that there are individuals and companies looking at this as a "once in a generation" opportunity to buy up UK assets on the cheap. Imagine those Brexiteers when they find out the house they are renting is owned by a "foreigner"
The "once in a generation" opportunity to buy up Britain on the cheap has been going on ever since Geoffrey Howe removed most of the restrictions on buying British companies and assets. In short it has been going on for 40 years so you can drop the faux Brexit outrage on this one
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:16
LostFool
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And if you had bothered to read the post you would understand that this is an artificial effect of the Sterling devaluation.
Indeed. The FTSE 100 may have had a good year due to dollar earnings but the FTSE 250, which represents the kind of companies who do most of their business in the UK, has had a relatively poor 12 months.

On the bright side, if you have a US Tracker fund held in Sterling, the value will be up about 30% on the year.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:23
TheEngineer
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The "once in a generation" opportunity to buy up Britain on the cheap has been going on ever since Geoffrey Howe removed most of the restrictions on buying British companies and assets. In short it has been going on for 40 years so you can drop the faux Brexit outrage on this one
Can you tell me the last time the GBP/USD rate was at this level for a sustained period.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:25
gallag
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How is the ftse doing if rebased to the euro? That's the main comparison here is it not?
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:28
RRL
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Can you tell me the last time the GBP/USD rate was at this level for a sustained period.
Well I could look it up but then so could you so I won't bother.
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Old 30-12-2016, 18:29
TheEngineer
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Well I could look it up but then so could you so I won't bother.
Mid 80's - or about a generation ago.
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Old 30-12-2016, 20:33
tahiti
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And the US economy is doing just dandy in your little world I guess

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

still what is $20 trillion between friends eh?
The US dollar is a reserve currency,

Sterling I'm afraid is not . Sterling is so volatile and subject to political whims now that it is traded like an emerging market currency. Think pesos.

no one rebases anything against Sterling apart from you and maybe someone at the Daily Express.
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Old 30-12-2016, 20:38
James_Orton
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The US dollar is a reserve currency,

Sterling I'm afraid is not . Sterling is so volatile and subject to political whims now that it is traded like an emerging market currency. Think pesos.

no one rebases anything against Sterling apart from you and maybe someone at the Daily Express.
What is it against the Euro, up or down?
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Old 30-12-2016, 20:44
John146
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Well I suppose if Brexit is a failure we could always try lend/lease again, worked well last time ....... didn't it?
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:05
tahiti
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What is it against the Euro, up or down?
it is down 0.4 % , and is calculated as follows:

Jan 1 2016: ftse100 6242 , gbp/eur 1.3567
dec 30 2016 : ftse 100 7210, gbp/eur 1.1699

so ftse rebased @ 30 Dec = 7210 * 1.1699/ 1.3567 = 6217 = loss of 0.4% on ftse 100 @ 1 jan 2016
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:13
MargMck
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So let me get this right.... the FTSE is rubbish, the currency is rubbish, inward investment is rubbish, unemployment levels are rubbish, visitor numbers/ spend is rubbish, in fact any indicators of success or stability since June 2016 are actually signs of Armageddon.

Roll on 2017 and A50!
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:15
John146
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So let me get this right.... the FTSE is rubbish, the currency is rubbish, inward investment is rubbish, unemployment levels are rubbish, visitor numbers/ spend is rubbish, in fact any indicators of success or stability since June 2016 are actually signs of Armageddon.

Roll on 2017 and A50!
Yay!! roll on March
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Old 30-12-2016, 21:22
tahiti
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So let me get this right.... the FTSE is rubbish, the currency is rubbish, inward investment is rubbish, unemployment levels are rubbish, visitor numbers/ spend is rubbish, in fact any indicators of success or stability since June 2016 are actually signs of Armageddon.

Roll on 2017 and A50!
You are free to present economic facts of your own up for debate, as opposed to that kind of perfunctory post.

do you accept that FTSE 100 is showing a loss yoy in dollar terms, or indeed in euro terms?

yes or no will do.

(and the less said about FTSE 250 the better for you Brexiters eh)
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