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Celebrity post mortem
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GusGus
02-01-2017
When Liberace died his publicity people put it out that he had died of heart failure
The coroner however ordered toxicology tests which revealed the truth
davidmcn
02-01-2017
Originally Posted by pearlsandplums:
“Say a figure in the public eye died suddenly. Does the cause of death have to be announced? Is it public knowledge or do the family opt to release the information? If it was something that the family didn't want to be revealed can they block it being published in the papers?”

Cause of death (once determined) is on the death certificate, which is publicly available.
pearlsandplums
02-01-2017
There was a guy in 'six feet under' who died from hanging himself off a multi gym. They found a lemon beside him and twigged it was auto erotic asphyxiation. Apparently once it gets too much you're meabh to bite the lemon
GusGus
02-01-2017
How does all this fit in with the American "Wanna hang out" expression. Am I missing something here?
dee123
02-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“Why? There's nothing shameful about mental illness and suicide.”

No there isn't but sadly some parts of the media aren't mature enough to handle it.
Jane Doh!
02-01-2017
Originally Posted by SeasideLady:
“And why are you so impassioned about it ? He hanged himself 20 years ago and that's all there is to it.

A man's normal leather belt which would be 1 -2 " width would be easily capable of supporting a dead man's weight without snapping. A door hook's stability on the other hand is dependent obviously on how well it's secured to the door. A weakly attached hook may have given way which could have resulted in MH falling to the floor on his knees. However, if the hook was still in the door and the belt intact, it could be assumed that death was unintentional, due to auto-eroticism, and probably was. Surely those findings would have been mentioned in the coroner's report ?”

Was this supposed to be in reply to me?
WhatJoeThinks
02-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“The coroner discounted that manner of death so I'm going to go with him. He's the expert, he's the one with all the facts.

What are you talking about when you say holding back a little?”

Evidently the belt wasn't strong enough to support his bodyweight, as the buckle had broken when they found him. If it had broken immediately he would still be alive, but instead he managed to at least partially support his own weight whilst asphyxiating himself, died, and only then did the belt break.
Jane Doh!
02-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Evidently the belt wasn't strong enough to support his bodyweight, as the buckle had broken when they found him. If it had broken immediately he would still be alive, but instead he managed to at least partially support his own weight whilst asphyxiating himself, died, and only then did the belt break.”

How does that prove it wasn't suicide? The buckle would have broken due to the weight of a dead body. Nothing to do with your suggestion that he was holding himself back.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“How does that prove it wasn't suicide? The buckle would have broken due to the weight of a dead body. Nothing to do with your suggestion that he was holding himself back.”

First of all, nothing can prove that it wasn't intentional suicide any more than they can prove that it was. This is purely conjecture based on the evidence available.

Yes, the buckle did indeed break due to his dead weight. That much we do know. The fact that he managed to asphyxiate himself before the buckle broke tells us that his full weight was not applied while he was asphyxiating himself; that he managed to sustain a desired amount of strangulation while still alive, then the buckle broke as he dropped dead. That much is fairly certain, given the physics.

The only real speculation is that while he was naked on his knees behind the door, with his belt around his neck, suspended from the door hook, applying enough pressure to strangulate himself in a sustained fashion without so much pressure that the buckle would break*, he was probably masturbating.

(*The fact that he wasn't aware of the breaking strength of his belt buckle is irrelevant.)
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“First of all, nothing can prove that it wasn't intentional suicide any more than they can prove that it was. This is purely conjecture based on the evidence available.

Yes, the buckle did indeed break due to his dead weight. That much we do know. The fact that he managed to asphyxiate himself before the buckle broke tells us that his full weight was not applied while he was asphyxiating himself; that he managed to sustain a desired amount of strangulation while still alive, then the buckle broke as he dropped dead. That much is fairly certain, given the physics.

The only real speculation is that while he was naked on his knees behind the door, with his belt around his neck, suspended from the door hook, applying enough pressure to strangulate himself in a sustained fashion without so much pressure that the buckle would break*, he was probably masturbating.

(*The fact that he wasn't aware of the breaking strength of his belt buckle is irrelevant.)”

I disagree. The buckle breaking after his death tells nothing of the sort.

Again, I'm going with the coroner and not some random person's speculation.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“I disagree. The buckle breaking after his death tells nothing of the sort.

Again, I'm going with the coroner and not some random person's speculation.”

The coroner said the cause of death was "hanging", he didn't say suicide. And nobody is disagreeing with that. Every part of my conjecture is based on the coroners report and the evidence, which is available to all of us. There's a big difference between conjecture and speculation.

And less of the random, you!
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“The coroner said the cause of death was "hanging", he didn't say suicide. Nobody is disagreeing with that. Every part of my conjecture is based on the coroners report and the evidence, which is available to all of us. There's a big difference between conjecture and speculation.

And less of the random, you! ”

If you want to conjecture or speculate, go ahead.

It is known he was suffering with mental illness and he had been taking drugs. Anything else is just gossip.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“If you want to conjecture or speculate, go ahead.

It is known he was suffering with mental illness and he had been taking drugs. Anything else is just gossip.”

Well, that was it really.
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Well, that was it really.”

We agree! Nothing more to be said.
anne_666
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“The coroner said the cause of death was "hanging", he didn't say suicide. And nobody is disagreeing with that. Every part of my conjecture is based on the coroners report and the evidence, which is available to all of us. There's a big difference between conjecture and speculation.

And less of the random, you! ”

Reported detectives account, "A maid found the body at 11.50am the next day when she tried to enter the room. The maid could not get in because he was behind the door and as she pushed the door the belt snapped and he fell down"

The Coroner's Report
Full transcript
http://inxsweb.com/tribute/coroner.shtml
Quote:
“It has been suggested that the death resulted from an act of auto eroticism. However, there is no forensic or other evidence to substantiate this suggestion. I therefore, discount that manner of death.
Having considered the extensive brief I am satisfied that the standard required to conclude that this death was a suicide has been reached for the following reasons:”

WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Ahh... Thanks for posting, anne_666.
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Ahh... Thanks for posting, anne_666. ”

Who said exactly what I did.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“Who said exactly what I did.”

Not quite, but never mind.
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Not quite, but never mind.”

I posted the same comment from the same source. You obviously skipped that bit.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“I quoted the same comment from the same source. You obviously skipped that bit.”

The bit about the maid having broken the belt? Sorry, I didn't realize you'd said that at all.
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“The bit about the maid having broken the belt? Sorry, I didn't realize you'd said that at all.”

From the coroner's report. I said this more than once.
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“From the coroner's report. I said this more than once.”

Yes, I just checked and you did say "coroner's report" more than once, but you didn't actually say that the belt snapped when the maid pushed the door open, which obviously disproves my conjecture and was something that I was unaware of until anne's post.

[Edit] Also, the link I'd posted to the coroners report did not mention the word suicide aside from, "Ms Bennett stated that Hutchence never expressed previous inclinations regarding suicide." It seems that the link I provided was incomplete, but I thought it was the one that you and I were both referring to, so just saying "coroners report" wasn't very helpful.
Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“ Yes, I just checked and you did say "coroner's report" more than once, but you didn't actually say that the belt snapped when the maid pushed the door open, which obviously disproves my conjecture and was something that I was unaware of until anne's post.”

No, I didn't. But I did say the coroner said it was suicide and not auto erotic asphyxiation. Several times.

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“Only Paula Yates said it wasn't suicide.”

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“What does being on his knees have to do with anything?

Being sexually adventurous means nothing. I'll go with what the coroner reported and not a grieving lover or a gossip.”

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“The only person who suggested this, as far as I'm aware, was Paula Yates.

You would not need to provide continual pressure if doing it from a door hook.”

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“He wouldn't have been thinking about controlling it. He probably wouldn't have figured out how much weight he could put on the belt without it breaking. Very few people would.

The only person talking about it was Paula Yates. Nobody else, as far as I'm aware, so I'll stick with what I know.”

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“The coroner discounted that manner of death so I'm going to go with him. He's the expert, he's the one with all the facts.

What are you talking about when you say holding back a little?”

Originally Posted by Jane Doh!:
“I disagree. The buckle breaking after his death tells nothing of the sort.

Again, I'm going with the coroner and not some random person's speculation.”

Jane Doh!
03-01-2017
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“ Yes, I just checked and you did say "coroner's report" more than once, but you didn't actually say that the belt snapped when the maid pushed the door open, which obviously disproves my conjecture and was something that I was unaware of until anne's post.

[Edit] Also, the link I'd posted to the coroners report did not mention the word suicide aside from, "Ms Bennett stated that Hutchence never expressed previous inclinations regarding suicide." It seems that the link I provided was incomplete, but I thought it was the one that you and I were both referring to, so just saying "coroners report" wasn't very helpful. ”

How many coroner's reports were there?
WhatJoeThinks
03-01-2017
Can you squawk too? Lovely plumage.
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