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FT: UK mobile users face return of steep roaming bills after Brexit |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Shock horror not everyone is on an unlimited plan you know, people do incur late fees, people do still use MMS and make international calls. Just because you don't and you're on a contract and you don't go over or use out of allowance minutes doesn't mean nobody else does.
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#77 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Quote:
It isn't possible to go back that far and make sense of price rises, and even then the caps were at 50p a minute etc, again you can chip away at side arguments as much as you like but in answer to gigabit's question YES we've seen price increases and yes they were in line with recent EU cap implementation.
Yes there have been some price rises in certain areas but 1) You can't prove they wouldn't have happened anyway. There are many other factors which can and do affect telecoms prices. 2) Networks adjust their tariffs once or twice per year, so there is a good chance of that coinciding with the period that the roaming caps are implemented (middle of the year) and it's provides a good excuse for them! 3) You also haven't proven that the UK networks lost significant roaming profits. I can guarantee for example that more British people visit Spain than Spanish who visit the UK. In the past, the UK networks may have charged a lot more for roaming but the Spanish networks would also charge them a lot more on a wholesale level. I would honestly expect them to pay out a lot more to overseas networks than they receive from them, in most cases. To put it another way - the lost roaming profits will be much lower than the lost roaming revenues. If you have some solid independent figures for point 3, then I'd genuinely like to see them. |
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#78 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,875
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Quote:
Shock horror not everyone is on an unlimited plan you know, people do incur late fees, people do still use MMS and make international calls. Just because you don't and you're on a contract and you don't go over or use out of allowance minutes doesn't mean nobody else does.
Vodafone for instance, announced free roaming in the EU far before they were supposed to and I can tell you, they still make a nice profit. |
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#79 |
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You guys are shuffling around changing the goal posts, the original was as follows. Quote:
So take the last 3 years where the market is saturated. Then look at the price rises that have taken place and the cutting back on perks. This is more of a fair comparison.
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Can we have some evidence for your statement, please?
Evidence of price increases (which were denied initially) has now been provided and now you've shifted to wanting a link between the EU caps and the price increases, well they happened within 90 days of each other in 2014 and 2016 and Vodafone even announced them together in the same press release. http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...php?p=72809934 |
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#80 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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I appear to have been incorrectly quoted in the message above.
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#81 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Quote:
Evidence of price increases (which were denied initially)
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#82 |
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Personally I never denied them, I even listed some in a post. What I said though was that they don't actually matter.
Prices have gone up, per minute rates have doubled in the last few years on multiple networks, the EU cap wasn't funded by the EU it was funded by the consumer, it was not a financial gift and the funds had to come from somewhere. |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Good luck with that compared to the more direct UK political system.
People don't go to council meetings, few speak or meet with their MP. They post on Facebook and Twitter and sign petitions instead, or believe activists just ignoring the rule of law will change things. People for the most part don't engage with politics at all and just go with the lame 'they are out of touch' line. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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How many people have a clue how the UK political system works though?
People don't go to council meetings, few speak or meet with their MP. They post on Facebook and Twitter and sign petitions instead, or believe activists just ignoring the rule of law will change things. People for the most part don't engage with politics at all and just go with the lame 'they are out of touch' line. |
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#85 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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they let them acquire what was 2 merged networks (the biggest network)
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and add that to their portfolio of already existing huge communications assets.
And (as has been said before), you were quite happy for the French and German versions of BT to control EE...
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#86 |
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I doubt the ancient history of an almost 6 year old merger had much relevance.
And (as has been said before), you were quite happy for the French and German versions of BT to control EE... The had half each, not the whole company like BT They have no other interests in the UK telecoms market They weren't selling quadplay They didn't run a massive fibre network They didn't run the landline network They didn't already run an MVNO in the UK They didn't already have competition concerns surrounding them However the good news is EE is now blocked from obtaining any more 4G spectrum in the forthcoming auction as they already own over 45% of the UK spectrum, something which even O2 / 3 wouldn't have got near when combined in their mobile only venture. |
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#87 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Good luck with that compared to the more direct UK political system.
Now, if only we used a proper electoral system, like the EU does, like most of the developed world does. When Canada switches to something better, we will be alone with the US in terms of Anglosphere countries who use FPTP, a system that ignores the wishes of the majority in favour of the group who shouts loudest. Quote:
Putting 1 lot of fibre to a new cabinet for 50 properties is a hell of a lot cheaper than putting fibre to 50 properties, arranging to get in with the account holders cutting off service whilst the work is done etc
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You're also in a unique situation, most would be within line of sight of a cabinet, even if more cabinets are needed in some cases. I can't see why BT would multiply the cost of rollout by several times and waste billions unnecessarily, rather than make use of the emerging wireless technology which gives super fast speeds wirelessly, with no need to do property installs or troubleshooting.
BT should use the best technology that provides the best long term benefits and the best opportunities for growth. Wired technologies offer that. 5G doesn't. Wireless is great for mobile applications. It's great for properly engineered point to point links. It's a terrible alternative to wired connections for every other purpose. (I'd also love to know how 5G won't need a professional installation. My house has really thick walls, so that non-LOS 5G cell site will have to penetrate that!) |
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#88 |
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Young people may not, but I have written to my MP and councillors about a big local issue and the local issue has since been resolved. The answer is not to make politics even more difficult and remote otherwise they'll be no point going to the polls or voting anymore, lets do away with democracy all together is that what you're saying?
People need to be educated to understand how politics works, both now and potentially in the future. Ranting online doesn't change anything and just makes people even more angry when they discover that their rants didn't change things. I'm glad you've engaged with politicians, but my question was how many people know and I don't think it's just young people. I am sure many middle and elderly people have never engaged either. That said, at most council meetings it will be older people - but that's not to say older people engage as it is usually the same small group of people. |
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#89 |
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My MP just responds to anything I say with what amounts to "yeah I don't care, sorry". Because he's in one of the vast majority of seats where he doesn't have to worry greatly about re-election.
Now, if only we used a proper electoral system, like the EU does, like most of the developed world does. When Canada switches to something better, we will be alone with the US in terms of Anglosphere countries who use FPTP, a system that ignores the wishes of the majority in favour of the group who shouts loudest. Uh... that's not how it works for FTTH or G.fast. Especially not "cutting off service". Do you think that the first step in FTTH installation is to take a pair of bolt cutters to the copper line? I'm definitely not in a unique situation. BT should use the best technology that provides the best long term benefits and the best opportunities for growth. Wired technologies offer that. 5G doesn't. (I'd also love to know how 5G won't need a professional installation. My house has really thick walls, so that non-LOS 5G cell site will have to penetrate that!) Not everything is centred around you... shocker. I think you'll find that lobbying your MP with others can be quite effective, and what voting system we have is really another entirely different debate, what is important is we do have local representation, not all systems are perfect but I would prefer UK democracy over an EU superstate. |
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#90 |
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5G talk is in the 30+ GHz range. We are already using 2.6GHz for LTE in the UK, and the next auction is expected to be for 3.4 GHz.
Yeah, really can't see why BT wouldn't just do it properly with FTTH or G.fast. Either of those two can easily provide hundreds of megabits, or even gigabits per home without breaking a sweat. 5G can do what, a gigabit shared between all users? |
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#91 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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So we really will need small cells everywhere to achieve the desired level of coverage and capacity.
Yeah, really can't see why BT wouldn't just do it properly with FTTH or G.fast. Either of those two can easily provide hundreds of megabits, or even gigabits per home without breaking a sweat. 5G can do what, a gigabit shared between all users? All we need is small sites where cabinets are, 5G has relay cells written into the spec which just power from the light pole with no backhaul needed, just simply a case of installing at the top of the pole. Some additional cabinets may be needed, but those would be dwarfed in terms of cost compared to 23 million re-pulls and installs in the property. There are even benefits to the consumer in that the router can go anywhere where there's a plug, all this technology will be ready for 2020. If we come back to this thread in 4 years and see what BT's plans are then I think they'll be some humble pie on offer, but if I'm wrong I'll happily have a slice. |
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#92 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 68
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Quote:
So we really will need small cells everywhere to achieve the desired level of coverage and capacity.
Yeah, really can't see why BT wouldn't just do it properly with FTTH or G.fast. Either of those two can easily provide hundreds of megabits, or even gigabits per home without breaking a sweat. 5G can do what, a gigabit shared between all users? How about point-to-point 5G (or other very high speed wireless tech) to the telegraph pole? That would be very handy in a lot of rural situations. |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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It's all MY with you isn't it, my line of site to my cabinet, my MP etc etc etc
Not everything is centred around you... shocker. I think you'll find that lobbying your MP with others can be quite effective, and what voting system we have is really another entirely different debate, what is important is we do have local representation, not all systems are perfect but I would prefer UK democracy over an EU superstate. |
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#94 |
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what I find odd is that these people arnt considering that if their house isn't in line of site for the cabinet. New cabinets can be installed closer at a fraction of the cost of rolling out FTTH.
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#95 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Nobody knows what 5G can or cannot do yet.
How about point-to-point 5G (or other very high speed wireless tech) to the telegraph pole? That would be very handy in a lot of rural situations. That's one of the more utterly pointless reasons to use wireless. If you're getting the fibre to a telegraph pole that is practically outside the property, you might as well use FTTH. Or G.fast (copper from home to pole) if it's such a fiendishly difficult task to string new cable. The really big cost in all this stuff is in the miles of fibre to get near the home - what you plonk on the end of it is virtually insignificant in cost terms. |
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#96 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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what I find odd is that these people arnt considering that if their house isn't in line of site for the cabinet. New cabinets can be installed closer at a fraction of the cost of rolling out FTTH.
"But it costs less than FTTH" totally misses the big picture, the cost savings that full FTTH brings, the practically unlimited futureproofing. Even the government is waking up to the reality that we should have done a lot more FTTH, a long time ago. The idea that BT will be placing its equipment on light poles is a bit fanciful. if I were them, I wouldn't be paying to rent when I can deploy a network using what I already own. |
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#97 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Moox I think you totally miss the bigger picture.
In 2003 we had 384Kb/s wireless speeds In 2013 we had 60Mb/s wireless speeds In 2023 we'll have up to 10Gb/s wireless speeds There is absolutely no need to re-pull 23 million cables and to hard wire to every single home for the next generation of broadband. It WILL be delivered largely by small cells, I'm sure if it. Right now BT are probably in a state of limbo as they will want to play their cards close to their chest, but it wasn't a coincidence that they spent £12.5BN acquiring a mobile company. In 3 years time the technology will be developed, ratified, fully documented from a specification point of view and radio licenced for deployment. I believe small cells will be much favoured over FTTP for the giant cost advantage. The difference in cost in deploying 50k -200k small cells to already existing street furniture and re-pulling 23M cables and installing millions of miles of new cable into every single home in the land is just so huge. |
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#98 |
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However the good news is EE is now blocked from obtaining any more 4G spectrum in the forthcoming auction as they already own over 45% of the UK spectrum, something which even O2 / 3 wouldn't have got near when combined in their mobile only venture.
And crying about how little spectrum Three has is a little pathetic, they were the ones who sat back and expected o2's spectrum to fall into their lap... |
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#99 |
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Not quite accurate, EE won't be able to bid on the 40MHz of the 2300MHz band on offer, they are still able to bid on the 150MHz of the 3400MHz spectrum up for auction at the same time.
I said they are blocked from obtaining any more 4G spectrum. http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/news/in...ctrum-cap.aspx |
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#100 |
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And crying about how little spectrum Three has is a little pathetic, they were the ones who sat back and expected o2's spectrum to fall into their lap...
It did acquire some spectrum that it may never use, so I am really unsure what it was hoping would happen? Even with the merging of Three and O2, it would still have limitations on spectrum without bidding for more - given the vast increase in subscriber numbers. Plus, there would have almost certainly been some very costly decisions and actions necessary to work out how the sites were going to be shared, and whether it would have to give up some of the MBNL sites (and likewise O2 losing some of its sites) - complete with all the logistics of such changes. Nothing that couldn't have been sorted, but I remember some Three shop staff telling me back when the news first broke that they'd already merged with O2 and there would be shared coverage within months. I assume I wasn't the only person they said that to! Perhaps Three hopes that it can somehow get Ofcom to rule that BT must give up more of its spectrum and just give it to Three? If Ofcom was to do anything (and I doubt it will) then I am sure the spectrum would at best be put up for auction, not handed out for free. I'm not complaining since Three did upgrade work locally. I can get 70Mbps at home now (not bad when you have AYCE data, meaning I can upload/download large files via the phone and transfer over USB) and my parents can get 90-95Mbps. So in some respects, I am not even sure why Three is moaning. It has a reasonable amount of spectrum and can increase capacity through adding more sites, small cells etc. |
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