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FT: UK mobile users face return of steep roaming bills after Brexit


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Old 02-01-2017, 17:52
jonmorris
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Some of the numbering is Europe wide though isn't it? Isn't 118 for directory enquiries a Europe wide thing? And 08 and 07 seem to be fairly standard too.

It's just that Ofcom has made a mess of many other types of number. 07 is a fine example as already mentioned.
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Old 02-01-2017, 17:55
moox
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The geographic prefixes are an even more hilarious mess.

Even here, in an area code that is predominantly rural. My area code is 5 digits and my number is 6 digits. In the nearby town, same area code, most numbers are 5 digits, except for a prefix that was added later to deal with expansion, which is 6 digits. In the nearby cities, one of which is 10x larger than the other, it's all 5 and 6.

London and other major cities have a 3 digit code, 8 digit numbers. Other major cities are 4 and 7. I'm pretty sure I've seen 6 and 6.

Don't forget that London went through two major numbering changes in the space of a decade. Not much forward thinking went into it, it seems. At least they now have room for expansion, but there's a stigma against those new fangled 020 3 numbers.

I wonder what'll happen in the future when there is no PSTN anymore. It's all VoIP. Will we start using email address-like "numbers"? Will there be a mass renumbering to take into account the fact that numbers need not be bound to geography anymore?

Some of the numbering is Europe wide though isn't it? Isn't 118 for directory enquiries a Europe wide thing? And 08 and 07 seem to be fairly standard too.

It's just that Ofcom has made a mess of many other types of number. 07 is a fine example as already mentioned.
112 is certainly Europe wide (and I think it works in the UK, though I've never used it and am not about to test ), I think 101 and others are standards too though implementation is quite variable.
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Old 02-01-2017, 17:56
david16
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Let's ditch those 2 oafs and the 118 118 TV advert off our screens and bring back the cheap rate 192 for directory enquiries.

One of these radio adverts, Maureen 118, the announcer says "Plus your operators Access Charge" in a funny way at the end of the advert. What's not funny is when you get billed well over £30 for a call lasting well less than 20 minutes.

Another total rip off.
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Old 02-01-2017, 18:04
david16
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The geographic prefixes are an even more hilarious mess.

Even here, in an area code that is predominantly rural. My area code is 5 digits and my number is 6 digits. In the nearby town, same area code, most numbers are 5 digits, except for a prefix that was added later to deal with expansion, which is 6 digits. In the nearby cities, one of which is 10x larger than the other, it's all 5 and 6.

London and other major cities have a 3 digit code, 8 digit numbers. Other major cities are 4 and 7. I'm pretty sure I've seen 6 and 6.

Don't forget that London went through two major numbering changes in the space of a decade. Not much forward thinking went into it, it seems. At least they now have room for expansion, but there's a stigma against those new fangled 020 3 numbers.
Major cities like Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee have 5 digit town codes.

But also even stranger, towns like Dalkeith that are not in the Edinburgh city area use the 4 digit Edinburgh code, while Paisley which is not in the Glasgow city area use the 4 digit Glasgow code.
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Old 02-01-2017, 19:45
d123
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Not forgetting the provision of standard 01 codes to locations that aren't even in the UK.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:41
jonmorris
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112 is certainly Europe wide (and I think it works in the UK, though I've never used it and am not about to test ).
112 does indeed work in the UK.

On a mobile it will in fact work anywhere in the world as it just tells the phone to trigger an emergency call - so whatever the phone is set up to take as an emergency number will get you through.

(999 will therefore trigger an emergency call in Europe from a mobile).
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Old 03-01-2017, 00:06
DavidGover
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Not forgetting the provision of standard 01 codes to locations that aren't even in the UK.
I suppose you are talking about the Channel Islands. However, I recently discovered an even stranger one! From Wikipedia:

Although Tristan da Cunha shares the +290 code with St Helena, residents have access to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Telecommunications Network, provided by Global Crossing.[35] This uses a London 020 numbering range, meaning that numbers are accessed via the UK telephone numbering plan.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:53
d123
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I suppose you are talking about the Channel Islands. However, I recently discovered an even stranger one! From Wikipedia:
Channel Isalnds and Isle of Man, yes.

It's a ridiculous situation where as an example, 01642 is a completely normal code and included in allowances while 01624 is excluded and charged at a far higher rate.

Although Tristan da Cunha shares the +290 code with St Helena, residents have access to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Telecommunications Network, provided by Global Crossing.[35] This uses a London 020 numbering range, meaning that numbers are accessed via the UK telephone numbering plan.
At least it's still charged as a standard 020 call
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:31
Cloudane
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It's cute that people think anything whatsoever will go down in cost after Brexit. Businesses don't operate like that, they look for an excuse to say "we need to put up prices because xyz happened" and the exit absolutely perfect for it. And without these "Brussels bureaucrats telling us what to do!!" there will be far less regulation holding them back. Our own government certainly won't, they're Tories, they have their fingers in most of the pies themselves.

Also, any thought that the money we paid to the EU that got given back to our communities as project funding will just continue to go to the communities directly (perhaps even more!). LOL.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure we're ****ed.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:38
DavidGover
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It's cute that people think anything whatsoever will go down in cost after Brexit. Businesses don't operate like that, they look for an excuse to say "we need to put up prices because xyz happened" and the exit absolutely perfect for it. And without these "Brussels bureaucrats telling us what to do!!" there will be far less regulation holding them back. Our own government certainly won't, they're Tories, they have their fingers in most of the pies themselves.

Also, any thought that the money we paid to the EU that got given back to our communities as project funding will just continue to go to the communities directly (perhaps even more!). LOL.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure we're ****ed.
The most sense I've seen in this thread so far.
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Old 03-01-2017, 13:16
jonmorris
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It's cute that people think anything whatsoever will go down in cost after Brexit. Businesses don't operate like that, they look for an excuse to say "we need to put up prices because xyz happened" and the exit absolutely perfect for it. And without these "Brussels bureaucrats telling us what to do!!" there will be far less regulation holding them back. Our own government certainly won't, they're Tories, they have their fingers in most of the pies themselves.

Also, any thought that the money we paid to the EU that got given back to our communities as project funding will just continue to go to the communities directly (perhaps even more!). LOL.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure we're ****ed.
I take exception to that. The likes of Farage are clearly men of the people. He drinks pints for God's sake, and speaks of independence days and making Britain great again.

He also has good contacts with other men of the people, like Trump, so with him almost certainly featuring in the future somehow, and the Tories in power until 2020 and likely longer (Corbyn? Haha), everything is going to be just fine.

So no need to be negative!!
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Old 03-01-2017, 13:57
Stereo Steve
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It's cute that people think anything whatsoever will go down in cost after Brexit. Businesses don't operate like that, they look for an excuse to say "we need to put up prices because xyz happened" and the exit absolutely perfect for it. And without these "Brussels bureaucrats telling us what to do!!" there will be far less regulation holding them back. Our own government certainly won't, they're Tories, they have their fingers in most of the pies themselves.

Also, any thought that the money we paid to the EU that got given back to our communities as project funding will just continue to go to the communities directly (perhaps even more!). LOL.

I sincerely hope to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure we're ****ed.
So where will that money go then? Or will it cease to exist?
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:09
DavidGover
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So where will that money go then? Or will it cease to exist?
Into the pockets of politicians and big business, obviously.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:15
moox
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So where will that money go then? Or will it cease to exist?
It'll be spent on London. Or on bribing every company in the UK not to move operations to what will be the EU. Nissan's already had their special deal drawn up, so the queue is forming.

It may also be spent on recreating all the functions that the EU currently does for us, only without the economy of scale that you get from teaming up with 26 countries, so it'll cost more (in our taxes and in direct retail costs) and be utterly pointless.

It most definitely won't be spent on regional development (at least, not outside London and the South East) or on the NHS.

If I remember correctly you live in Devon. Do you really think that the government will spaff some cash your way? They've just decided that not even Bristol is worthy of an electric railway line for the time being, so all those promises they made about finally fixing Dawlish are a long way away. Cornwall was lucky, it got funding for stuff thanks to the EU.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:47
jonmorris
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You're dead right except for the electrification stuff, where it makes sense to delay when the project is so behind and over budget. More use of the bi-mode trains can cover in the short term. The work will be completed in the next financial period.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:10
Stereo Steve
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It'll be spent on London. Or on bribing every company in the UK not to move operations to what will be the EU. Nissan's already had their special deal drawn up, so the queue is forming.

It may also be spent on recreating all the functions that the EU currently does for us, only without the economy of scale that you get from teaming up with 26 countries, so it'll cost more (in our taxes and in direct retail costs) and be utterly pointless.

It most definitely won't be spent on regional development (at least, not outside London and the South East) or on the NHS.

If I remember correctly you live in Devon. Do you really think that the government will spaff some cash your way? They've just decided that not even Bristol is worthy of an electric railway line for the time being, so all those promises they made about finally fixing Dawlish are a long way away. Cornwall was lucky, it got funding for stuff thanks to the EU.
Devon never get's much money spent on it anyway aside from private enterprise. It all goes to Cornwall as it's Objective 1 or whatever they call it now. I doubt we'll miss it.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:14
Stereo Steve
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It'll be spent on London. Or on bribing every company in the UK not to move operations to what will be the EU. Nissan's already had their special deal drawn up, so the queue is forming.

It may also be spent on recreating all the functions that the EU currently does for us, only without the economy of scale that you get from teaming up with 26 countries, so it'll cost more (in our taxes and in direct retail costs) and be utterly pointless.

It most definitely won't be spent on regional development (at least, not outside London and the South East) or on the NHS.

If I remember correctly you live in Devon. Do you really think that the government will spaff some cash your way? They've just decided that not even Bristol is worthy of an electric railway line for the time being, so all those promises they made about finally fixing Dawlish are a long way away. Cornwall was lucky, it got funding for stuff thanks to the EU.
I share your cynicism but then look on the other side. If your prediction is true and the 'remain' voters get all the benefit of the money that would have gone to the EU, won't that make the 'Leave' voters more furious? Over time I mean. London voted to remain, didn't get their way and so spent all the EU money on themselves. Sounds like a recipe for a far left government or a revolution to me. I am neither far left or revolutionary so would suggest that any right thinking government would take the message from the brexit vote very seriously. Might take a few elections before that happens though.........
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:32
lightspeed2398
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Devon never get's much money spent on it anyway aside from private enterprise. It all goes to Cornwall as it's Objective 1 or whatever they call it now. I doubt we'll miss it.
https://new.devon.gov.uk/economy/fun...uropean-issues

Devon did get European funding. If it gets half of that from central government I'll be surprised.
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Old 03-01-2017, 16:35
Stereo Steve
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Or you could say that there are a hard core of Tories who wanted out of the EU all along and supported by many on the left have achieved their goal, much to the annoyance of the ordinary liberal middle class elite.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:37
de525ma
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Or you could say that there are a hard core of Tories who wanted out of the EU all along and supported by many on the left have achieved their goal, much to the annoyance of the ordinary liberal middle class elite.
LOL. "Middle class elite". What rot. The elite are upper class. That's the definition.

What's happened is that the right wing super rich have successfully hoodwinked the poorest in society to blame immigrants for the fact their quality of living is decreasing and the rich are getting richer. There's no evidence for that whatsoever. Globalization yes, but you can't stop that by building walls. cf. North Korea, Venezuela.

If you're getting to the situaiton where everyone who has made it their life's work to study these issues is telling you it's a bad idea, and you're believing morons, fascists, the right wing press and racists instead, then I hope when you get ill you don't go to the experts and just ask Phil down the pub.

Also the press have made it their business since the expenses scandal to tell everyone that politicians are liars and can't be trusted. Which is undermining democracy itself. Most politicians work hard for their constituents and fight hard for their issues. It's just never reported.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:11
moox
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You're dead right except for the electrification stuff, where it makes sense to delay when the project is so behind and over budget. More use of the bi-mode trains can cover in the short term. The work will be completed in the next financial period.
It's an utter farce though. The standard government response to any sort of trouble is "let's delay it for several years". I only know this too well, even something as minor as a local road bypass is on its 3rd attempt at getting built, even though it was needed 15-20 years ago.

I fear that "but the trains are bi modes" will just stop any sort of expansion - shortsighted though that'd be. Especially for Somerset, Devon and Cornwall, where the trains are already specifically designed for extended diesel operation. Meanwhile the Welsh govt seems to be able to get the wires to go all the way to Swansea, that doesn't seem to been cut despite the delays and cost overruns. I'd have thought Bristol is far more important than that.

But this is getting really offtopic...
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:23
Thine Wonk
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What is sad is that despite paying tax and national insurance in the UK all my life if I was made homeless as a single male and went to the council they would tell he I'm not a priority and I'd be left to homeless shelters or charities.

Yet migrants come here, take private house rental and pay 3 months rent, then stop paying for 3 months whilst the eviction process begins and then by the time they are evicted they take the letter to the council and women and children get housed as a priority even if they've only been in the country for 6 months, they also get all their benefits from then on too. We also bring people over from other counties and give them housing and benefits, we need to get our priorities right and look after our people first and only then if there's money in the pot start looking at other counties needs, housing and benefits.

We struggle with the NHS in winter, the waiting times in A&E were 6 hours at my local hospital at one point, schools, roads etc are all under pressure, yet we've allowed migration of 641,000 people migrate here in 2015 and 631,000 in 2016, in just those 2 years 1.3 million migrated here, if it weren't for such high numbers year after year over the last 5-10 years then surely our systems wouldn't be under such pressure?

I'm all for healthcare workers essential to the NHS coming and needed jobs and even for free movement of labour, not people and I think the system needs to be fairer.

That's not my only issue with it though, I have equally big objections to the EU like scope creep, ever increasing Euro-state, too much silly red tape, lack of democratic control.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:30
Gigabit
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What's some red tape then?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:33
Thine Wonk
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What's some red tape then?
Read the government's own report, even if you just read the executive summary in section 2.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ness-taskforce

We have identified Barriers to Overall Competitiveness. To address these, the EU should:

Ensure the full implementation of the Services Directive across the EU
Ensure data protection rules don’t place unreasonable costs on business
Refrain from bringing forward legislative proposals on shale gas
Drop proposals to extend reporting requirements to non-listed companies.
We have identified Barriers to Starting a Company and Employing People. To address these, EU Governments should be allowed flexibility to decide:

When low-risk companies need to keep written health and safety risk assessments
How traineeships and work placements should be provided.
For new employment law proposals the starting presumption should be that micro-enterprises are exempt. When inclusion is sensible (e.g. a beneficial proposal) micros should have a proportionate regime. In particular the:

Pregnant Workers proposals should be withdrawn
Posting of Workers Directive should not introduce mandatory new complex rules on subcontracting
Existing legislation on Information and Consultation should not be extended to micros, and no new proposals or changes to existing legislation should be made
Working Time Directive should keep the opt out; give more flexibility on on-call time/compensatory rest; clarify there is no right to keep leave affected by sickness
Agency Workers Directive should give greater flexibility for individual employers and workers to reach their own arrangements that suit local circumstances and give clarity to companies that they only need to keep limited records
Acquired Rights Directive should allow an employer and employee more flexibility to change contracts following a transfer.
We have identified Barriers to Expanding a Business. To address these, the EU should:

Drop costly new proposals on environmental impact assessments
Press for an urgent increase of the current public procurement thresholds
Exempt more SMEs from current rules on the sale of shares
Minimise new reporting requirements for emissions from fuels
Drop plans for excessively strict rules on food labelling
Remove proposals to make charging for official controls on food mandatory
Remove unnecessary rules on SMEs transporting small amounts of waste
Withdraw proposals on access to justice in environmental matters
Withdraw proposals on soil protection.
We have identified Barriers to Trading Across Borders. To address these, the EU should:

Take action to create a fully functioning digital single market
Rapidly agree measures to cap card payment fees
Remove international regulatory barriers which inhibit trade
Reduce the burden of VAT returns, and stamp out refund delays
Drop proposals on origin marking for consumer goods.
We have identified Barriers to Innovation. To address these, the EU should:

Improve guidance on REACH to make it more SME-friendly
Rapidly agree the new proposed Regulation on clinical trials
Improve access to flexible EU licensing for new medicines
Introduce a risk-based process for the evaluation of plant protection products.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:37
moox
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What is sad is that despite paying tax and national insurance in the UK all my life if I was made homeless as a single male and went to the council they would tell he I'm not a priority and I'd be left to homeless shelters or charities.

Yet migrants come here, take private house rental and pay 3 months rent, then stop paying for 3 months whilst the eviction process begins and then by the time they are evicted they take the letter to the council and women and children get housed as a priority even if they've only been in the country for 6 months, they also get all their benefits from then on too. We also bring people over from other counties and give them housing and benefits, we need to get our priorities right and look after our people first and only then if there's money in the pot start looking at other counties needs, housing and benefits.
So is this something you actually experienced and is verifably true, or is this something you read in the Daily Mail? Or is it something you heard down the pub?

Perhaps if we had a properly funded council house system, like we used to, things would be better for everyone? Kicking out the immigrants (who don't just waltz into a council house) will not change the fact that it's had decades of underinvestment and deliberate dismantlement.

We struggle with the NHS in winter, the waiting times in A&E were 6 hours at my local hospital at one point, schools, roads etc are all under pressure, yet we've allowed migration of 641,000 people migrate here in 2015 and 631,000 in 2016, in just those 2 years 1.3 million migrated here, if it weren't for such high numbers year after year over the last 5-10 years then surely our systems wouldn't be under such pressure?

I'm all for healthcare workers essential to the NHS coming and needed jobs and even for free movement of labour, not people and I think the system needs to be fairer.

That's not my only issue with it though, I have equally big objections to the EU like scope creep, ever increasing Euro-state, too much silly red tape, lack of democratic control.
All those things are under pressure because governments have systematically under-funded them to near breaking point. Not because of the EU, or the "hordes" of people flooding in. I experience the same thing, and I live in a county that is virtually untouched by foreign immigration, EU and non-EU. Well, except for the immigrants who work in the hospitals and schools as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, teachers etc.

The hospital keeps having "black alerts" because it's full of British-born bed blockers, because we don't have a decent elderly care system in this country. Or it's because people are waiting for operations that don't go ahead due to a lack of staff.

What red tape offends you most? Where's the lack of democratic control - and remember that the UK system is worse, before you answer that question.
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