SOC is EastEnders' saving grace. Since 2011 the show has been dying under 3 terrible producers - the worst 3 the show has ever had.

I've said it before and ill say it again, SOC has brought back focus on characters and then story. He isn't throwing out sensatonal stuff everywhere or relying on it to the point he's changing characters personalities or the continuity of the show to suit his ideas.

For his first couple of months he's been building from the ground up and bringing stability that EastEnders used to have before the last 6 years of dross. Now he's finally hit us with something big and it's been the most grim thing that has happened easily in the last 6 years.

If you don't like the way the show is now, from past experience, stop watching until he's gone because it's not changing. But you won't. You'll moan without merit or substance (without merit or substance sounds too much like DTC).

If you liked the past 6 years but dont like this, then I don't get you. This is good character storytelling. This is EastEnders.

I've moaned the last 6 years because I've been so dismayed at the state I found the show I've watched all my life become. I genuinely thought it would never have the same level of quality again. It's attention to detail is back to being brilliant.

Give me that Ronnie and Roxy episode any day over something like Gavin (now the original "hello princess" retcon mess) laughably chasing Sharon around a mansion.

This new years day ep was beautifully shot, acted, written, clever and executed. It was a quality and heatbreaking and shocking send off for the girls. EastEnders stepped up and went there again. Something it hasn't really done since Bradley fell of the Vic. The grit was truly back and awesome and grim. True EastEnders. It was fittingly tragic.

I'm so looking forward to this year. Well done SOC and team.

What did you make of the references to Titanic and Cinderella?

What was so great about it?

The episode was directed beautifully but from a storyline perspective the character's demise could have been picked from a hat. As well directed the episode was it doesn't really take much creative genius to kill someone in a freak accident unrelated to any possible ongoing consequence.

Not withstanding the whole climax to the Lee storyline in terms of his involvement with the burglary being an off-camera confession. That was really pants.

I liked it. It tied in similar themes which added an extra layer of in-character subtext to the characters of Ronnie and Roxy's tragic lives and gave an eerie foreshadowing of their end.

I'm tired and should probably be asleep, so apologies but I am struggling to see the connection between Cinderella and Titanic to Ronnie & Roxy? Especially titanic?

EastEnders reflects life. That's the main goal of the show. Life is random and tragic things happen on a whim. Tragedy is a theme of Ronnie's character. Losing her loved ones is a pattern which is a story element which has been with her since she even appeared on screen.

What was good is that we have been with these characters for so long now. They are loved and to see them robbed of a happy ending is not only in line with their character arcs, it's heartbreaking, shocking and evokes deep emotions from the viewer - something EastEnders has always done.

I remember Dennis being stabbed on new years. It was quick and brutal and devastating to watch.

It doesn't reflect life. If it did they'd all be too poor to live there, have washing machines, not go to the minute mart for their entire weekly family shop. and most would have darker skin. It's a soap where you expect drama, storylines and things that make sense and pay offs that are worth it.

Deciding to drown them is something that won't have taken more than 30 seconds of a story development meeting. It's really poor.

I completely agree.

I will say I didn't mind DTC too much, because I feel he was brought in to make EastEnders big again. But his way of doing that was to make a splash with a huge story or two for the 30th anniversary. I will say unfortunately, the characters did suffer i.e. Ian and Jane. Jane is only now getting back to how she was before the Who Killed Lucy business, flawed but generally a good woman. Slightly irked that Ian was on the stall the other day, bemoaning Max being back in Walford, not seeming to feel ashamed he had a hand in an innocent man going to jail for murder.

DTC was all about the Big story. I enjoyed Who Killed Lucy.
I was agog when Kathy came back but then horrified at the mess that was the Gavin story. And even more annoyed when they started dicking around with EastEnders history by having "hello Princess" be Gavin's line, that he gave to Den. Rubbish! Gavin's subsequent end was squib too, the whole mansion scenario was just dreadful.

Since Sean O'Connor's work has started to filter through, I noticed a definite change in tone back to more character, more everyday type stories and interactions. And yes, this was a definite adjustment to the frenetic pace of DTC, but it was necessary. It started to feel like the old EastEnders again, but with modern stories. They weren't reliving the 80s, but rather taking what worked in the 80s in terms of storytelling and applying it to today's show.

And personally, it has worked a treat.
Tonight's viewing was shocking, the first time EastEnders has genuinely shocked the nation since Tiffany Mitchell's demise on New Years Eve 98.

On paper, drowning in a swimming pool, sounded a bit oh....is that it? when you think of what has gone on the past few years and the mega explosions on the other soaps. But the way the story was written and the episodes crafted, it was brilliant. It was a human tragedy story and it was all the more harrowing for it.

And whilst people lambasted the show's Christmas as "too happy" we find a New Year with some very gritty drama ahead, culminating from SOC's first six months of sterling work. Unfortunately, we live in a society that wants everything now...now now now, blow it up, kill someone, do something....they don't want to listen to dialogue, they don't care about the history or the backstory. They want all the payoff but none of the graft.

I reckon SOC's payoff will see some of EastEnders most memorable and finest drama in years. Tonight was just the beginning.

Ok well i'll go at this quickly but...


CINDERELLA

Versions of the story date back to ancient Greece, a time and place popularly known for stories of tagedy.

Cinderella refers more to Ronnie's unfortunate past and what she wants for herself now.

Wealth & Happiness

The entire poem of "Cinderella" hinges on wealth and happiness, really.
In early versions of this tale, the girl was not poor, but was the daughter of a wealthy person of rank who is out of the picture--dead (Archie). Wealth and Happiness, and women's pursuit of it, are the major thematic elements of the piece (Ronnie pursueing a benificial new happily ever after with Jack and her family). The example "Cinderella stories" are sarcastically called "that story" over and over again (In Ronnie's repetitive case - losing someone over and over again). The stories all involve cold, hard, skrilla (money), and Cinderella (Ronnie) gets to the ball for free with a beautiful, presumably pricey clothing (even though, of course, in Ronnie's case it's a lavish free car). In the story, the evil step mother and step-sisters (Archie/Roxy&Phil for a time) gets the jewls and riches (wealth and happiness) when Cinderella (Ronnie) gets a twig—which signifies that her life is awful (Ronnie's is with comstant tragedy). Marrying the prince (Jack) is almost always associated with having all kinds of wealth and happiness. A happily ever after.

The paralells are well done actually. Ronnie is a tragic life figure that gets her happy moment - like Cinderella... But then it Ronnie's all reverts back to tragedy. Just like Cinderella and her "awful" and unfortunate life. (Not like the cartoon)


There isn't many references to titanic actually. Like 2? It was mainly Cinderella but here we go.

TITANIC

Perseverance

From the outset, we know for sure that things aren't going to work out so well for the vast majority of Titanic passengers (we know Ronine isnt one who gets a happy ending from what we already know). So it's kind of (darkly) ironic that perseverance is a big theme. Ronnie perseveres trough out in her tragic life. Yet no matter what she is doomed like the ship is doomed.

There are also a lot of small parallels too between R&R and the titanic - drowning, you jump I jump, both male love interests are called Jack , Ronnie's locket is her heart of the ocean,

BOTH CINDERELLA AND TITANIC

Time

Indeed, a key way that the characters are defined in Titanic and Cinderella is by their relation to time, specifically in the division between those who can see the future and those who cannot. R&R don't heed the dangers of drinking and being reckless like on the roof and swimming in the pool. They didn't manage their time responsibly like they were supposed too (Ronnie said shed be 20 mons to Jack and Roxy said something similar to Max but they stayed away later, opting to go to the pool) - and eventually they payed the price like the titanic hitting the iceberg and Cinders magic failing and her resorting back to her "awful life" state (of tragedy in Ronnie's story). They planned for a lovely evening but their mismanagement of time cost them.

Tonight was great. I dont think SOC is perfect but I now have hope for the future

Couldn't agree more.

Whenever theirs water people automatic break into Titanic singing mode....

The entire foundation of EastEnders is to reflet real life of London East Enders and still is.

Whether they do it well or not. That is their goal. It's the entire foundation of which the show is built on.

Thank you so much for your post.

Finally a genuine sensible person who is aware.

i would have liked to see lee's full confession too assuming linda will also be told off screen. Also the mention of mick and linda's anniversary present exchange felt odd to me when they made such a show of them both seeing the paper ect

BIB - this shows that EE is in good hands. 2017 is shaping up brilliantly. The 'now, now' brigade won't be happy and will moan but they really need to look at more than what's just playing on the surface. There are so many levels that viewers will take out more, the more they invest in taking on board the dialogue and subtleties.

I've never been a huge fan of either sister and to be honest it's something of a relief now that we know they can't return and can't re-run the same storylines over and over and over. I rarely think that characters are that far gone that a line has to be drawn but that probably applies to R&R. I won't miss them. I haven't missed Lucy, I never missed Tiffany and as much as I liked Pat, I find it almost impossible to imagine the show over the last couple of years with her still in it.

Couldn't agree more with everything that Keibro and ClassicGarfield have said in this thread. The episode was superbly done however you look at it. Far from being a 30 second decision, the whole thing must have taken a considerable amount of time to develop, plan, write, film and edit. Spoilt only by the ******* at The Sun leaking it.

I do quite like SOC vision for EE but you can't say that DTC didn't turn the show around in 2014? that was a GREAT year for EE.

Ooh how very patronising.

I agree.

Agree with the majority of posts in this thread - some fantastic debate and extended discussion that is a joy to read. Hats off especially to ClassicGarfield and Keibro.

It was a crap ending! Seriously...a character like ronnie had far more storyline opportunity than some sensationalist one off ridiculous swimming pool death. This sort of death and episide us for minor characters wanting sensationalist exits with big aftermath. For me, the soc era is not enjoyable at all and i all he did was show me he didnt understand the characters and just wanted rid. And even lee....perfect opportunity given he is leaving to tell the real protrayal of suicides in young men but sacrificed for some ridiculous caricature of deaths without addressing a whole bunch of loose ends with the characters.

Thank you

thank you

I'm happily looking forward to the rest of the year

i agree too