DS Forums

 
 

LibDems - why they should not be trusted again


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-01-2017, 22:11
Ovalteenie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: a whimsical world
Posts: 20,959

I'm puzzled at the resurgence of the LibDems, as they paint themselves a centre-left alternative opposition, do voters have such short memories?

Let's post some reminders of their time in power in cahoots with the Tories...

Supported a massive hike in tuition fees to £9000+ pa.

Supported to re-privatise the profitable public-owned East Coast trains, and awarded the franchise to Virgin East Coast which is leading the latest increase in train fares. As a regular traveller on the East Coast, I can say that it has become worse and more expensive since Virgin took over.
Ovalteenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 02-01-2017, 22:15
Under Soul
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,039
Labour took us into Iraq and the current leader is as much use as a chocolate teapot. Farron has been brave about Europe (and voted against fees) and deserves the success the LDs are getting.

But if Labour get a decent leader in then I may recomsider
Under Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:16
tenofspades
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,941
well they weren't exactly going to be able to be a liberal democrat party with a tory majority..
Liberal democrats also were a force in stopping some things that now a full blooded tory party has commenced with.
People are so stupid, had they not detracted their liberal democrat support we would actually have a 3rd party.
tenofspades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:16
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
I hope you don't vote for any major party then, given that Labour and Conservative have lied many more times, often more mendaciously, and without being in a coalition government that required compromise.

It's plain to see that the Lib Dems got a lot of their policy into law when they were in government, just not all of it. They did a very good job of restraining the conservatives - that we can now see, given what Cameron and May have passed since 2015, and plan to pass in the future.

If we'd had a second coalition, who knows, we may not have had an EU referendum.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:27
Ovalteenie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: a whimsical world
Posts: 20,959
I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
Ovalteenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:31
Resonance
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,205
The problem the Lib Dems have got themselves into is that one of their main policies seems to be to ignore the referendum result. This will likely get them some short term gain, over the longer term though people will remember them as the Liberal Undemocratic party.

Basically most people support democracy and once we've left the EU the people against it will melt away from the Lib Dem vote.
Resonance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:35
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
The problem the Lib Dems have got themselves into is that one of their main policies seems to be to ignore the referendum result. This will likely get them some short term gain, over the longer term though people will remember them as the Liberal Undemocratic party.

Basically most people support democracy and once we've left the EU the people against it will melt away from the Lib Dem vote.
That's not actually their policy though. It's to use an electoral win to keep us in the EU. That is, by definition, democracy.

You can't ignore democracy with more democracy.

What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:50
smudges dad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William
Posts: 22,269
That's not actually their policy though. It's to use an electoral win to keep us in the EU. That is, by definition, democracy.

You can't ignore democracy with more democracy.

What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour.
If you want to talk lying, just remember Alistair Carmichael. Liar, leaker of government documents for political gain and branded an unreliable witness. Then Farron gave him a spokesman job, on Home Affairs of all things.
smudges dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 22:54
apaul
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,699
I assume the OP is never going to trust and support Labour either as it introduced and increased tuition fees and has awarded a lot of rail franchises to private companies.
apaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 23:03
Lyricalis
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
The more we see of a Tory government without coalition the more we're going to realise the Lib Dems did us more favours than they got credit for.
Lyricalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 23:03
Resonance
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,205
That's not actually their policy though. It's to use an electoral win to keep us in the EU. That is, by definition, democracy.

You can't ignore democracy with more democracy.

What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour.
That would be very dubious example of democracy unless they got elected with 52%+ of the vote on 72%+ turnout.

Anyway it's by the by, as they aren't going to win a general election. They will just be remembered as the party that said they want to ignore the result of the referendum. It will play well to some, but most people understand if you have a referendum, where it's promised the result will be followed, then that's what must happen.

I mean they even campaigned in the referendum. Why did they bother if they thought the result should be ignored? What was the point?
Resonance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 23:06
blueisthecolour
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 10,847
I assume the OP is never going to trust and support Labour either as it introduced and increased tuition fees and has awarded a lot of rail franchises to private companies.
The difference is that the Lib Dems still fully support everything they did in coalition - the only thing they think was a mistake was making the tuition fee pledge in the first place (and even then they say it made electoral sense at the time).

I have no problem if you're a pro-EU liberal conservative and want to support the Lib Dems. Personally I think you'd be better off joining the Tories and trying to moderate them from within, but that's just my opinion. However no one should kid themselves that the Lib Dems are some sort of English SNP centre-left party - they are not. Read the autobiographies of their ministers in coalition, go through the manifestos, read the Lib Dem blogs - they support the capitalist status quo just as much the Tories do.
blueisthecolour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 23:07
Resonance
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,205
The more we see of a Tory government without coalition the more we're going to realise the Lib Dems did us more favours than they got credit for.
Agreed. They did keep the Tories in check to some extent. The snoopers charter being a prime example. I can never support a party where one of their main policies is to ignore a democratic vote though.
Resonance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2017, 23:11
johhn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 182
After SNP taking almost all the seats in the north, Lib Dems under Tim Farron will futher reduce Labour's chances of being power ever again.
johhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 00:45
Dacco
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 47°9′ S, 126°43′ W
Posts: 2,948
Fined and reported to the police for electoral fraud.......
Dacco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 01:01
Aye Up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,883
If we'd had a second coalition, who knows, we may not have had an EU referendum.
Cameron had already made that a red line issue, so any future coalition agreement would have included the referendum. Prior to 2015 GE, it was always LibDem policy to have an in/out referendum anyway, give me a say on a new relationship with the EU. You can go as far back as 2010 during the debates, Clegg said so repeatedly, he was upfront saying he would always support remain/in. Regardless of which direction the last election headed, we were always going to have a referendum be it from a Tory majority or another coalition.

The EU Ref needed to happen, whilst it has opened up horrible sores, we couldn't continue as we were. Of all the western EU countries, Britain has bore the brunt of EU migration over the last 11 years. more so that France or Germany.
Aye Up is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 01:35
apaul
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,699
You are speaking nonsense Aye Up. There's no bearing the brunt a) because EU migrants are, on balance, a benefit, not a burden and b) the UK does not have a disproportionate percentage of EU migrants compared to Germany, Scandinavia etc.
apaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 01:47
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,702
The Lib Dems have shown their true colours and they are Blue not Red or even Yellow.

Yet even now they are also showing how they don't really care about democracy, ignoring the Brexit vote and even attempting to over turn it.

They are never to be trusted again and need to die out so a real alternative to the two main parties can rise up.

None of the 3 main parties, and also the SNP can be trusted any more.

The only thing we can do is make sure no one party gets too much of a majority.

A coalition is the best we can do at the moment.
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 02:30
SULLA
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,038
I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
Would not have been able to govern.

Clegg did the right thing to stabilise the country.

The economy is far far more important than student fees.
SULLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 03:11
thenetworkbabe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
I'm puzzled at the resurgence of the LibDems, as they paint themselves a centre-left alternative opposition, do voters have such short memories?

Let's post some reminders of their time in power in cahoots with the Tories...

Supported a massive hike in tuition fees to £9000+ pa.

Supported to re-privatise the profitable public-owned East Coast trains, and awarded the franchise to Virgin East Coast which is leading the latest increase in train fares. As a regular traveller on the East Coast, I can say that it has become worse and more expensive since Virgin took over.
They toyed with the idea of being a responsible, credible, party of government in the coalition - being forced to shed some naive promises along he way to save the economy. . They never quite managed it though- with a childish strop over their silly Lord's reform idea failing, stopping the much needed 2013 boundary review, and their inability to commit, delaying Trudent replacement by 4 years.

They have now reverted to type. There's a return of the swing to the left that suckered in leftwing Labour voters post 2003. There's a range of sandals policies that could come from the Greens. And there's a return to the anything that will get us a vote posture by trying to win remain votes by blocking brexit - despite it being clearly anti-democratic , and impossible to achieve.
thenetworkbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 06:46
CLL Dodge
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Green Hills of Earth
Posts: 80,418
They are on my "never again" list.
CLL Dodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:13
spikej
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon
Posts: 2,658
All voters have short memories, because if they didn't no political party would ever get a vote again!

All parties have been guilty of saying one thing and doing another, I don't see what difference is with the ex minority coliation partner, Lib Dems.
spikej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:23
jjwales
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
The Lib Dems have shown their true colours and they are Blue not Red or even Yellow.

Yet even now they are also showing how they don't really care about democracy, ignoring the Brexit vote and even attempting to over turn it.

They are never to be trusted again and need to die out so a real alternative to the two main parties can rise up.

None of the 3 main parties, and also the SNP can be trusted any more.

The only thing we can do is make sure no one party gets too much of a majority.

A coalition is the best we can do at the moment.
And the best chance of getting a coalition is to vote for smaller parties ... such as the Lib Dems!
jjwales is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:37
Lyricalis
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
Agreed. They did keep the Tories in check to some extent. The snoopers charter being a prime example. I can never support a party where one of their main policies is to ignore a democratic vote though.
Is that actually their policy or your interpretation of it? What have they said their policy regarding the EU referendum result is in their own words?
Lyricalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 10:54
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,702
And the best chance of getting a coalition is to vote for smaller parties ... such as the Lib Dems!
The Lib Dems have had their chance, even now out of power they are showing they do not care about democracy.

There are plenty of other smaller parties to vote for other than the Lib Dems.
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:20.