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LibDems - why they should not be trusted again |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: a whimsical world
Posts: 20,959
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LibDems - why they should not be trusted again
I'm puzzled at the resurgence of the LibDems, as they paint themselves a centre-left alternative opposition, do voters have such short memories?
![]() Let's post some reminders of their time in power in cahoots with the Tories... ![]() Supported a massive hike in tuition fees to £9000+ pa. Supported to re-privatise the profitable public-owned East Coast trains, and awarded the franchise to Virgin East Coast which is leading the latest increase in train fares. As a regular traveller on the East Coast, I can say that it has become worse and more expensive since Virgin took over. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,039
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Labour took us into Iraq and the current leader is as much use as a chocolate teapot. Farron has been brave about Europe (and voted against fees) and deserves the success the LDs are getting.
But if Labour get a decent leader in then I may recomsider |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,941
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well they weren't exactly going to be able to be a liberal democrat party with a tory majority..
Liberal democrats also were a force in stopping some things that now a full blooded tory party has commenced with. People are so stupid, had they not detracted their liberal democrat support we would actually have a 3rd party. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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I hope you don't vote for any major party then, given that Labour and Conservative have lied many more times, often more mendaciously, and without being in a coalition government that required compromise.
It's plain to see that the Lib Dems got a lot of their policy into law when they were in government, just not all of it. They did a very good job of restraining the conservatives - that we can now see, given what Cameron and May have passed since 2015, and plan to pass in the future. If we'd had a second coalition, who knows, we may not have had an EU referendum. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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The problem the Lib Dems have got themselves into is that one of their main policies seems to be to ignore the referendum result. This will likely get them some short term gain, over the longer term though people will remember them as the Liberal Undemocratic party.
Basically most people support democracy and once we've left the EU the people against it will melt away from the Lib Dem vote. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
The problem the Lib Dems have got themselves into is that one of their main policies seems to be to ignore the referendum result. This will likely get them some short term gain, over the longer term though people will remember them as the Liberal Undemocratic party.
Basically most people support democracy and once we've left the EU the people against it will melt away from the Lib Dem vote. You can't ignore democracy with more democracy. What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort William
Posts: 22,269
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Quote:
That's not actually their policy though. It's to use an electoral win to keep us in the EU. That is, by definition, democracy.
You can't ignore democracy with more democracy. What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,699
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I assume the OP is never going to trust and support Labour either as it introduced and increased tuition fees and has awarded a lot of rail franchises to private companies.
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#10 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
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The more we see of a Tory government without coalition the more we're going to realise the Lib Dems did us more favours than they got credit for.
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
That's not actually their policy though. It's to use an electoral win to keep us in the EU. That is, by definition, democracy.
You can't ignore democracy with more democracy. What is a more dubious example of "democracy", is lying through your teeth over and over again, with things you know are not true and will never be true, in order to get gullible people to vote your way - and then only getting the slimmest of slim margins in your favour. Anyway it's by the by, as they aren't going to win a general election. They will just be remembered as the party that said they want to ignore the result of the referendum. It will play well to some, but most people understand if you have a referendum, where it's promised the result will be followed, then that's what must happen. I mean they even campaigned in the referendum. Why did they bother if they thought the result should be ignored? What was the point? |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
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Quote:
I assume the OP is never going to trust and support Labour either as it introduced and increased tuition fees and has awarded a lot of rail franchises to private companies.
I have no problem if you're a pro-EU liberal conservative and want to support the Lib Dems. Personally I think you'd be better off joining the Tories and trying to moderate them from within, but that's just my opinion. However no one should kid themselves that the Lib Dems are some sort of English SNP centre-left party - they are not. Read the autobiographies of their ministers in coalition, go through the manifestos, read the Lib Dem blogs - they support the capitalist status quo just as much the Tories do. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
The more we see of a Tory government without coalition the more we're going to realise the Lib Dems did us more favours than they got credit for.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 182
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After SNP taking almost all the seats in the north, Lib Dems under Tim Farron will futher reduce Labour's chances of being power ever again.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 47°9′ S, 126°43′ W
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Fined and reported to the police for electoral fraud.......
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#16 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West
Posts: 4,883
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Quote:
If we'd had a second coalition, who knows, we may not have had an EU referendum.
The EU Ref needed to happen, whilst it has opened up horrible sores, we couldn't continue as we were. Of all the western EU countries, Britain has bore the brunt of EU migration over the last 11 years. more so that France or Germany. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,699
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You are speaking nonsense Aye Up. There's no bearing the brunt a) because EU migrants are, on balance, a benefit, not a burden and b) the UK does not have a disproportionate percentage of EU migrants compared to Germany, Scandinavia etc.
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#18 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,702
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The Lib Dems have shown their true colours and they are Blue not Red or even Yellow.
Yet even now they are also showing how they don't really care about democracy, ignoring the Brexit vote and even attempting to over turn it. They are never to be trusted again and need to die out so a real alternative to the two main parties can rise up. None of the 3 main parties, and also the SNP can be trusted any more. The only thing we can do is make sure no one party gets too much of a majority. A coalition is the best we can do at the moment. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
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Quote:
I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
Clegg did the right thing to stabilise the country. The economy is far far more important than student fees. |
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
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Quote:
I'm puzzled at the resurgence of the LibDems, as they paint themselves a centre-left alternative opposition, do voters have such short memories?
![]() Let's post some reminders of their time in power in cahoots with the Tories... ![]() Supported a massive hike in tuition fees to £9000+ pa. Supported to re-privatise the profitable public-owned East Coast trains, and awarded the franchise to Virgin East Coast which is leading the latest increase in train fares. As a regular traveller on the East Coast, I can say that it has become worse and more expensive since Virgin took over. They have now reverted to type. There's a return of the swing to the left that suckered in leftwing Labour voters post 2003. There's a range of sandals policies that could come from the Greens. And there's a return to the anything that will get us a vote posture by trying to win remain votes by blocking brexit - despite it being clearly anti-democratic , and impossible to achieve. |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Green Hills of Earth
Posts: 80,418
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They are on my "never again" list.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon
Posts: 2,658
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All voters have short memories, because if they didn't no political party would ever get a vote again!
All parties have been guilty of saying one thing and doing another, I don't see what difference is with the ex minority coliation partner, Lib Dems. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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Quote:
The Lib Dems have shown their true colours and they are Blue not Red or even Yellow.
Yet even now they are also showing how they don't really care about democracy, ignoring the Brexit vote and even attempting to over turn it. They are never to be trusted again and need to die out so a real alternative to the two main parties can rise up. None of the 3 main parties, and also the SNP can be trusted any more. The only thing we can do is make sure no one party gets too much of a majority. A coalition is the best we can do at the moment. |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
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Quote:
Agreed. They did keep the Tories in check to some extent. The snoopers charter being a prime example. I can never support a party where one of their main policies is to ignore a democratic vote though.
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,702
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Quote:
And the best chance of getting a coalition is to vote for smaller parties ... such as the Lib Dems!
There are plenty of other smaller parties to vote for other than the Lib Dems. |
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