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LibDems - why they should not be trusted again |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
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Of course, but that doesn't excuse his abandonment of personal integrity.
He is the Tony Blair of the Lib Dems. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here--------->
Posts: 12,398
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So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.
Labour introduced and increased tuition fees despite pledging not to in 2 manifestos but hey, that's OK 'cause "evil Tories". The Tories would sell out their own mother if it put a few beans in their wallet. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) have died in the Middle East because of the duplicity and incompetence of Labour, The Tories have spent nearly a decade ensuring that the brunt of austerity is borne by the poorest members of society while going out of their way to protect the well off. Stuff your tuition fee propaganda. |
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#53 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,933
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I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
I'm sorry, but the idea that the LibDems could push their entire manifesto onto the Tories in 2010 is ridiculous, as is the idea that refusing to go into a workable coalition with compromises would have scuppered the Tories more than the rest. If we could be sure that the Tories would just go for a minority government, it might be fine, but given the political climate and problems in the (world) economy, the public were keen for stability and that would have helped the Tories in a second election. Quote:
If you want to talk lying, just remember Alistair Carmichael. Liar, leaker of government documents for political gain and branded an unreliable witness. Then Farron gave him a spokesman job, on Home Affairs of all things.
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Fined and reported to the police for electoral fraud.......
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All voters have short memories, because if they didn't no political party would ever get a vote again!
All parties have been guilty of saying one thing and doing another, I don't see what difference is with the ex minority coliation partner, Lib Dems. Voters have a choice. Either they accept the main political parties along with their mistakes in government, including their inability to achieve the unrealistic, or they vote for a party that has never been in power and so not had the opportunity to do something unpopular. IMO, we really need a form of PR, and that will mean more coalitions and the rise of the smaller, as yet untested parties, but they will become tested in time. Politicians will learn to represent a majority, not just the voters in marginals, while the public will need to have a more realistic understanding of policy development. Quote:
You are right they cannot be trusted.
Nick Clegg offered us a refernduum on the EU in 2008 - he even called it a real referendum. Now they have back tracked and gone pro-eu damaging all the good work they did in the coalition providing checks and balances to the Tories. |
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#54 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,370
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The country would be in an immeasurably better position today had the last election produced another coalition between the Tories and the LibDems.
They are the only sane voice left in UK politics. |
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#55 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: My DJ Studio
Posts: 27,072
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Quote:
So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.
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#56 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,979
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Unless they get a new leader, the party have lost my vote.
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#57 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
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Pretty much this, why should it be any different for other parties to go back on their promises.
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#58 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,481
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Quote:
So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.
Labour introduced and increased tuition fees despite pledging not to in 2 manifestos but hey, that's OK 'cause "evil Tories". The Tories would sell out their own mother if it put a few beans in their wallet. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) have died in the Middle East because of the duplicity and incompetence of Labour, The Tories have spent nearly a decade ensuring that the brunt of austerity is borne by the poorest members of society while going out of their way to protect the well off. Stuff your tuition fee propaganda. This basically. ^ I can't vote for Labour as long as they have no chance of getting elected, I'd never vote for the Tories in a million years, and I think of myself as a centre-left sort of person, so yes I will be voting for the Lib Dems next time around, unless another similar party can prove they are electable in the meantime. |
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#59 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,370
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Unless they get a new leader, the party have lost my vote.
And I'm an atheist with no time for his religious nonsense. |
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#60 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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People have short memories and forgive too quickly sometimes. I think the Libs are getting support from Remainers and those who think the increase in personal tax allowances made up for the general selling out they did in propping up a Tory Govern,ent who's economic policies/targets completely failed.
The Tories/Libs also clawed back whatever they gave away in things like putting VAT up to 20% and all the spending cuts they imposed to. I will never give them my support and Tim Farron I don't trust one bit. Its obvious to me he's an out and out opportunist, one not to be trusted at all imo. |
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#61 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
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Quote:
People have short memories and forgive too quickly sometimes. I think the Libs are getting support from Remainers and those who think the increase in personal tax allowances made up for the general selling out they did in propping up a Tory Govern,ent who's economic policies/targets completely failed.
The Tories/Libs also clawed back whatever they gave away in things like putting VAT up to 20% and all the spending cuts they imposed to. I will never give them my support and Tim Farron I don't trust one bit. Its obvious to me he's an out and out opportunist, one not to be trusted at all imo. Just look at the cost of private health care compared to income tax that pays for the NHS. I don't think that raising the tax allowance was a good thing, it is just fattening up the poor so they will eventually allow income tax to be abolished for everyone. Then the rich will have truly won because the poor and even the middle class will pay more for less. |
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#62 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
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I agree, it is amazing how people don't realise that what they give in tax breaks they take away in other things like putting up tax on purchasing things, and also people have to pay more for things privately.
Just look at the cost of private health care compared to income tax that pays for the NHS. I don't think that raising the tax allowance was a good thing, it is just fattening up the poor so they will eventually allow income tax to be abolished for everyone. Then the rich will have truly won because the poor and even the middle class will pay more for less. |
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#63 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Not leaving the EU (quite yet)
Posts: 295
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After SNP taking almost all the seats in the north, Lib Dems under Tim Farron will futher reduce Labour's chances of being power ever again.
I doubt they'd get elected with their pro-EU credentials. |
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