DS Forums

 
 

LibDems - why they should not be trusted again


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-01-2017, 07:37
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
Of course, but that doesn't excuse his abandonment of personal integrity.
From what I've seen he never had any to abandon in the first place.

He is the Tony Blair of the Lib Dems.
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 04-01-2017, 08:42
MidnightFalcon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here--------->
Posts: 12,398
So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.

Labour introduced and increased tuition fees despite pledging not to in 2 manifestos but hey, that's OK 'cause "evil Tories". The Tories would sell out their own mother if it put a few beans in their wallet.

Hundreds of thousands (millions?) have died in the Middle East because of the duplicity and incompetence of Labour, The Tories have spent nearly a decade ensuring that the brunt of austerity is borne by the poorest members of society while going out of their way to protect the well off.

Stuff your tuition fee propaganda.
MidnightFalcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 09:13
*Sparkle*
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,933
I think they would have restrained them better if they had stayed in opposition with Labour against a minority Conservative government which would not be able to push through unpalatable policies.
You are assuming that the Tories wouldn't have called a second election giving them a proper majority so they could push through all of their policies in full without any restraint.

I'm sorry, but the idea that the LibDems could push their entire manifesto onto the Tories in 2010 is ridiculous, as is the idea that refusing to go into a workable coalition with compromises would have scuppered the Tories more than the rest. If we could be sure that the Tories would just go for a minority government, it might be fine, but given the political climate and problems in the (world) economy, the public were keen for stability and that would have helped the Tories in a second election.

If you want to talk lying, just remember Alistair Carmichael. Liar, leaker of government documents for political gain and branded an unreliable witness. Then Farron gave him a spokesman job, on Home Affairs of all things.
You know full well that loads of politicians leak memos when it suits them. You also know full well that Alex Salmond actively lied about getting legal advice on the potential role of an independent Scotland in the EU, which is much, much worse. Yet for very obviously politically motivated reasons, you and your fellow SNP lovers seem to ignore a brazen lie to the public.

Fined and reported to the police for electoral fraud.......
For incorrectly labelling spending in the accounts, but not breaching limits. It's serious (although the reporting to police is automatic), but the same offence as committed by Labour, and not as bad as the accusations against the Tories currently under investigation. Political parties do need to be more careful with how they record their election spending, but none of the major parties got this one right.

All voters have short memories, because if they didn't no political party would ever get a vote again!

All parties have been guilty of saying one thing and doing another, I don't see what difference is with the ex minority coliation partner, Lib Dems.
This is the key thing. It's understandable that people are fed-up with politicians, and many do say one thing with no intention of carrying it out, but it only takes a few moments thought to realise that even majority governments can and should change their minds as circumstances change, and that a minority party in a coalition does not get to call all of the shots.

Voters have a choice. Either they accept the main political parties along with their mistakes in government, including their inability to achieve the unrealistic, or they vote for a party that has never been in power and so not had the opportunity to do something unpopular. IMO, we really need a form of PR, and that will mean more coalitions and the rise of the smaller, as yet untested parties, but they will become tested in time. Politicians will learn to represent a majority, not just the voters in marginals, while the public will need to have a more realistic understanding of policy development.

You are right they cannot be trusted.

Nick Clegg offered us a refernduum on the EU in 2008 - he even called it a real referendum.

Now they have back tracked and gone pro-eu damaging all the good work they did in the coalition providing checks and balances to the Tories.
They were always pro-EU. They believed we should get a vote on the EU if there were any plans to further our involvement, or substantial change. For example, if the UK Government of the day proposed joining the Euro, then we should have a referendum on it. Anyway, being in favour of a referendum doesn't mean being pro or anti. It was about reassuring the public there wouldn't be substantial change without their say-so.
*Sparkle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 09:48
trevgo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,370
The country would be in an immeasurably better position today had the last election produced another coalition between the Tories and the LibDems.

They are the only sane voice left in UK politics.
trevgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 12:20
Soppyfan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: My DJ Studio
Posts: 27,072
So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.
Pretty much this, why should it be any different for other parties to go back on their promises.
Soppyfan is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 12:27
Pumping Iron
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 22,979
Unless they get a new leader, the party have lost my vote.
Pumping Iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 12:36
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
Pretty much this, why should it be any different for other parties to go back on their promises.
No one has said that, Quote a post that has?
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 17:04
Moonbean
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,481
So Labour and Tory supporters tell me I shouldn't trust the Dems because "tuition fees". I'm supposed to just ignore the fact that Labour and Tory majority governments have been gleefully ignoring manifesto promises for the last hundred years or so.

Labour introduced and increased tuition fees despite pledging not to in 2 manifestos but hey, that's OK 'cause "evil Tories". The Tories would sell out their own mother if it put a few beans in their wallet.

Hundreds of thousands (millions?) have died in the Middle East because of the duplicity and incompetence of Labour, The Tories have spent nearly a decade ensuring that the brunt of austerity is borne by the poorest members of society while going out of their way to protect the well off.

Stuff your tuition fee propaganda.

This basically. ^

I can't vote for Labour as long as they have no chance of getting elected, I'd never vote for the Tories in a million years, and I think of myself as a centre-left sort of person, so yes I will be voting for the Lib Dems next time around, unless another similar party can prove they are electable in the meantime.
Moonbean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 17:11
trevgo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,370
Unless they get a new leader, the party have lost my vote.
I'm no Farron fan, but compared to what else is around, he's the best of a bad bunch.

And I'm an atheist with no time for his religious nonsense.
trevgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 18:20
Styker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
People have short memories and forgive too quickly sometimes. I think the Libs are getting support from Remainers and those who think the increase in personal tax allowances made up for the general selling out they did in propping up a Tory Govern,ent who's economic policies/targets completely failed.

The Tories/Libs also clawed back whatever they gave away in things like putting VAT up to 20% and all the spending cuts they imposed to. I will never give them my support and Tim Farron I don't trust one bit. Its obvious to me he's an out and out opportunist, one not to be trusted at all imo.
Styker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 21:11
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
People have short memories and forgive too quickly sometimes. I think the Libs are getting support from Remainers and those who think the increase in personal tax allowances made up for the general selling out they did in propping up a Tory Govern,ent who's economic policies/targets completely failed.

The Tories/Libs also clawed back whatever they gave away in things like putting VAT up to 20% and all the spending cuts they imposed to. I will never give them my support and Tim Farron I don't trust one bit. Its obvious to me he's an out and out opportunist, one not to be trusted at all imo.
I agree, it is amazing how people don't realise that what they give in tax breaks they take away in other things like putting up tax on purchasing things, and also people have to pay more for things privately.

Just look at the cost of private health care compared to income tax that pays for the NHS.

I don't think that raising the tax allowance was a good thing, it is just fattening up the poor so they will eventually allow income tax to be abolished for everyone.

Then the rich will have truly won because the poor and even the middle class will pay more for less.
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 21:19
Styker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28,296
I agree, it is amazing how people don't realise that what they give in tax breaks they take away in other things like putting up tax on purchasing things, and also people have to pay more for things privately.

Just look at the cost of private health care compared to income tax that pays for the NHS.

I don't think that raising the tax allowance was a good thing, it is just fattening up the poor so they will eventually allow income tax to be abolished for everyone.

Then the rich will have truly won because the poor and even the middle class will pay more for less.
I think the personal income tax rates should only have risen for those on less than 24 thousand a year with maybe a slight increase before people start paying taxes on the 40% rate too.
Styker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:22
errea
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Not leaving the EU (quite yet)
Posts: 295
After SNP taking almost all the seats in the north, Lib Dems under Tim Farron will futher reduce Labour's chances of being power ever again.
Are you expecting the SNP to stage a takeover of the north of England?
I doubt they'd get elected with their pro-EU credentials.
errea is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:23.