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Finland trials basic income for unemployed


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Old Yesterday, 12:25
Pumping Iron
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Not sure that you'd be that much better off on a middle income, as presumably tax rates would have to go up to pay for the basic income. Which would have to be set at a level where it doesn't penalise those in real need.
It'd depend what the level of tax was and where the lower and upper thresholds began, but unless they went up significantly, I'd still be quids in.

The cap now is already seeing people made homeless and that's 20-23k per year, so what would the level need to be here? Everyone gets 20k a year?
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Old Yesterday, 12:26
Tassium
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This sounds interesting. This article gives very little information, but with a small trial group it's easy to test, and see how it works. The current situation for unemployed people discourages looking for a job, as many times your immediate income decreases if you start working.

Only in a tiny fraction of cases might that be true.

Creating law that applies to the majority when the problem is only applicable to a tiny minority does not produce a good result for the majority nor the country.
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Old Yesterday, 12:33
jjwales
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Only in a tiny fraction of cases might that be true.

Creating law that applies to the majority when the problem is only applicable to a tiny minority does not produce a good result for the majority nor the country.
I suppose we won't know until we try it!
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Old Yesterday, 12:36
FingersAndToes
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Only in a tiny fraction of cases might that be true.

Creating law that applies to the majority when the problem is only applicable to a tiny minority does not produce a good result for the majority nor the country.
Well this basic income is on trial only for a small test group. I don't know how widely they plan to expand it, but it isn't hurting anyone trying new things that might help small minority to get employed without losing income.

If it improves the lives of people, it's worth a try.
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Old Yesterday, 13:29
anne_666
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You can't live on €560 in Finland, especially in major cities where only rent goes as high as €1000 p/m, and the cheapest pizza would be €15. Basic income should never be introduced as it is always worse than benefits. So, if you are poor or unemployed, you would not be able to make ends meet on Basic income. That's what they have tried in Switzerland and the people rejected it.
I agree.
The proposed trial in Scotland and another aspect.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7505411.html

Under UBI, welfare benefits such as Jobseekers’ Allowance, working tax credits and state pensions are replaced by a single, unconditional flat-rate payment, regardless of whether the recipient is in work. Any money earned above this is subject to taxation.
There isn't any detail of how much they intend to pay but currently the tax free personal allowance is £11,000??
Finland pays approx. £5700 and the Netherlands £9,800. Odd disparity when they're both near the top of EU cost of living index, Finland higher than the Netherlands and the UK higher than both.
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Old Yesterday, 13:43
LostFool
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This sounds interesting. This article gives very little information, but with a small trial group it's easy to test, and see how it works. The current situation for unemployed people discourages looking for a job, as many times your immediate income decreases if you start working.
That wasn't true when I've been unemployed. The lack of money was a massive encouragement to find a new job.
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Old Yesterday, 14:13
juliancarswell
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In the Torygraph today it was reported that an experiment in Sweden where workers went to a 6hr day from an 8hr shift with no loss of pay has been abandoned with no plans to go back to it.
The benefits were out weighed by the losses. Having to employ more staff to make up the hours cost too much.
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Unread Today, 12:53
anne_666
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In the Torygraph today it was reported that an experiment in Sweden where workers went to a 6hr day from an 8hr shift with no loss of pay has been abandoned with no plans to go back to it.
The benefits were out weighed by the losses. Having to employ more staff to make up the hours cost too much.
Idealistic socialist clap trap in a capitalist economy. A whacking nearly 60% personal taxation obviously isn't enough. Try to reduce their unemployment figures and assume employers will pick up the tab. I wonder how much appeal a universal employment rate would have.
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Unread Today, 13:03
KIIS102
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The problem with ONLY giving it to unemployed people is going to be a huge increase in resentment from people who work to people who don't. Why get up at 6am/leave your kids/drive to work if you could get a few hundred a week free from the Government.

I think a huge majority of people would be happy to give money to disabled people for example but there would be a pushback if it was given to people who just couldn't be bothered.

It's ok for countries with a ton of money and small populations (Norway, Saudi Arabia etc). It wouldn't work in the UK for example or in most places in Europe.
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Unread Today, 13:07
eggchen
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The problem with ONLY giving it to unemployed people is going to be a huge increase in resentment from people who work to people who don't. Why get up at 6am/leave your kids/drive to work if you could get a few hundred a week free from the Government.

I think a huge majority of people would be happy to give money to disabled people for example but there would be a pushback if it was given to people who just couldn't be bothered.

It's ok for countries with a ton of money and small populations (Norway, Saudi Arabia etc). It wouldn't work in the UK for example or in most places in Europe.
That crucial observation about human nature is what many socialists and other supporters of schemes like this always miss, and why they are baffled when what should work in theory, actually won't in practice.
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