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why doesn't the male suicide rate in the UK get any real attention?


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Old 03-01-2017, 11:42
TheDC
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It's so easy to fall between the cracks. trying to survive on 73 a week (and frozen until 2020) pay your council tax (25% of it), feed yourself and take public transport to jobs is virtually impossible. Where I lived some people had to spend £15 a day on buses just to get places as several bus companies run different routes so you can't buy a day ticket.

You have no rights at a workplace until you've worked for 2 years. Even then they can just get rid of you with a small settlement agreement payment and legal action costs a fortune, especially if your unemployed.

It does seem you are looked after alot more if you have children, you can just work 2 days a week on nmw , get child tax credits, working tax credits and full housing benefit to give you the same income as if you had a 30-40k job.

Sad to think that with young men the biggest killer is suicide,if any thing else was killing as many there would be calls to fix the broken system
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:50
James Frederick
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It should be suicide overall.

Men successfully commit suicide more but it's about a 50-50 split between men and women who attempt it's just men are more successful in completing it.

When I attempted suicide there were more women than men in the Psychiatric Hospital who had attempted but failed.

This is down to the different ways men and women try.

Men tend to go for more violent ways i.e hanging -jumping off high things- wrist slitting-shooting themselves (I went for hanging) whereas women usually overdose.

Something does have be done about all of it though.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:52
Annsyre
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It's so easy to fall between the cracks. trying to survive on 73 a week (and frozen until 2020) pay your council tax (25% of it), feed yourself and take public transport to jobs is virtually impossible. Where I lived some people had to spend £15 a day on buses just to get places as several bus companies run different routes so you can't buy a day ticket.

You have no rights at a workplace until you've worked for 2 years. Even then they can just get rid of you with a small settlement agreement payment and legal action costs a fortune, especially if your unemployed.

It does seem you are looked after alot more if you have children, you can just work 2 days a week on nmw , get child tax credits, working tax credits and full housing benefit to give you the same income as if you had a 30-40k job.

Sad to think that with young men the biggest killer is suicide,if any thing else was killing as many there would be calls to fix the broken system
The suicide rate has hardly changed year on year.

The highest suicide rate for men is in the 45 - 49 years age group.

Three times as many men as women commit suicide. (Approx)

In 2014, 6,122 suicides were registered in the UK. This corresponds to a suicide rate of 10.8 per 100,000 people (16.8 per 100,000 for men and 5.2 per 100,000 for women).

http://www.samaritans.org/about-us/o...-about-suicide
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:54
Annsyre
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It should be suicide overall.

Men successfully commit suicide more but it's about a 50-50 split between men and women who attempt it's just men are more successful in completing it.

When I attempted suicide there were more women than men in the Psychiatric Hospital who had attempted but failed.

This is down to the different ways men and women try.

Men tend to go for more violent ways i.e hanging -jumping off high things- wrist slitting-shooting themselves (I went for hanging) whereas women usually overdose.

Something does have be done about all of it though.

Not 50 - 50.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=su...G7O4KEaMOdo6AD

What could you do after the event to prevent it? And before it how would you know a person's inentions?
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:04
Penny Crayon
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I think people are afraid to admit or confess that they are depressed/stressed - more so males than females (I'd guess).

I believe mental health issues are getting more attention in the media recently - we need to lose the stigma attached. It's not a sign of weakness to share your fears or admit that you're not coping. June Sarpong lost a brother to suicide last year - she has been very touchingly honest and open about it.

Friendship/communication may not be 100% the answer but I think it helps. We need to be more open and to listen to each other.

This was doing the rounds on FB yesterday - I copied and shared. I'm not sure if it makes much difference but - surely 'every little helps'.

My door is always open, any of my mates who need to chat are welcome. Please don't suffer in silence. I have food and drink in the fridge, can put the kettle and will always lend an ear. You are never not welcome!!
Could at least one friend please copy and repost (not share)? I'm trying to demonstrate that someone is always listening.
#SuicideAwareness
#nevertellsomeonetheyhavenothingtobedepressedabout
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:04
Mark_Jones9
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It's so easy to fall between the cracks. trying to survive on 73 a week (and frozen until 2020) pay your council tax (25% of it), feed yourself and take public transport to jobs is virtually impossible. Where I lived some people had to spend £15 a day on buses just to get places as several bus companies run different routes so you can't buy a day ticket.

You have no rights at a workplace until you've worked for 2 years. Even then they can just get rid of you with a small settlement agreement payment and legal action costs a fortune, especially if your unemployed.

It does seem you are looked after alot more if you have children, you can just work 2 days a week on nmw , get child tax credits, working tax credits and full housing benefit to give you the same income as if you had a 30-40k job.

Sad to think that with young men the biggest killer is suicide,if any thing else was killing as many there would be calls to fix the broken system
Suicide is the most common cause of death for men aged 20 to 49. (the suicide rate for men is highest aged 40 to 54)
Below 20 the most common cause of death for men is transport accidents (land). Above 50 heart disease.

Suicide is the most common cause of death for women aged 20 to 34. (but the suicide rate for women is highest aged 40 to 54)
Below 20 its transport accidents (land). Above 34 cancer.

At the moment suicide rates appears to be falling for men and rising for women.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:06
Aye Up
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Mental health for men recieves nowhere near as much attention as it does for women. Ladies tend to have a support network amongst their female family and friends, men are more solitary and reclusive.

I have considered taking my own life on a number of occasions, usually through overdose or hanging. I have never been able to see it through admittedly, being a pussy mainly.

Men have it hard in todays world, so much is expected of us, yet we have very few places to go when we're in need of support or help.

Mental health provision for men is woefully inadequate and should be addressed pronto. Yet for some reason the government and mental health charities seem to think its more of a more problem for adolescents and women struggling with PND.

Look at how shit things can be for men, its no wonder we (they) are driven to despairing situations.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:10
steeleuro_wolf
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It doesn't get the attention it needs because people feel ashamed or embarrassed talking about it. There's still a massive stigma around mental health, and yes it's worse for men because outdated concepts of masculinity tell us to keep our feelings bottled up and not talk about them.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:16
Penny Crayon
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Mental health for men recieves nowhere near as much attention as it does for women. Ladies tend to have a support network amongst their female family and friends, men are more solitary and reclusive.

I have considered taking my own life on a number of occasions, usually through overdose or hanging. I have never been able to see it through admittedly, being a pussy mainly.

Men have it hard in todays world, so much is expected of us, yet we have very few places to go when we're in need of support or help.

Mental health provision for men is woefully inadequate and should be addressed pronto. Yet for some reason the government and mental health charities seem to think its more of a more problem for adolescents and women struggling with PND.

Look at how shit things can be for men, its no wonder we (they) are driven to despairing situations.
PND is very specific I totally understand why it is treated separately. The same goes for adolescent issues - particularly eating disorders.

Is there a disparity between mental health provision for men and women? I would have thought if it's woefully inadequate for men - it'd be the same for women.

I have noticed mental health becoming more prominent and 'talked about' this past year in the media. Didn't some (or one) of the younger Royals make a speech about it in order to help raise the profile?

I'm not an expert or knowledgeable in this area but I do believe that there is help out there. Getting people to admit/open up is the most important thing. I wonder statistically how many suicide victims have actually actively sought help first.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:20
Jellied Eel
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I think people are afraid to admit or confess that they are depressed/stressed - more so males than females (I'd guess).

I believe mental health issues are getting more attention in the media recently - we need to lose the stigma attached.
I think for blokes, stress is expected, ie juggling the work/life balance and keeping up with deadlines & payments. And being constantly busy is sometimes seen as a desireable trait in an employee.. Until they snap, of course. Then depression is something that happens to other people and you may not notice it happening to yourself. So things stop being fun, pressure builds up until there's some triggering/crisis event, and then as others have said, male suicide tends to be more final.

So part of the challenge is recognising those signs in both yourself, and in others.. Which is perhaps where men aren't as good, ie seeking help and not hiding problems. I still remember going into work one monday and it was a bit gloomy, then finding out it was because a colleague had killed themselves over the weekend. Which came as a shock because the week before, he'd seemed fine.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:22
Aye Up
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It doesn't get the attention it needs because people feel ashamed or embarrassed talking about it. There's still a massive stigma around mental health, and yes it's worse for men because outdated concepts of masculinity tell us to keep our feelings bottled up and not talk about them.
Couldn't agree more quite frankly!

Its fortunate in recent years that more avenues of support specifically targeted to men have opened up. CALM and MIND are 2 heavily focussed movements to try and embed themselves in support of men facing mental health difficulties. Still the lions share of funding is targeted towards females and adolescents, men getting help from the NHS is a challenge. I personally had to seek private treatment with my employer footing the bill, I was lucky in that respect.

The problem with much of todays NHS is that when you show up to A&E in crisis, they will give you a pill and send you home telling you to see your GP in the morning..........that has to stop.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:33
TheDC
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Mental health for men recieves nowhere near as much attention as it does for women. Ladies tend to have a support network amongst their female family and friends, men are more solitary and reclusive.

I have considered taking my own life on a number of occasions, usually through overdose or hanging. I have never been able to see it through admittedly, being a pussy mainly.

Men have it hard in todays world, so much is expected of us, yet we have very few places to go when we're in need of support or help.

Mental health provision for men is woefully inadequate and should be addressed pronto. Yet for some reason the government and mental health charities seem to think its more of a more problem for adolescents and women struggling with PND.

Look at how shit things can be for men, its no wonder we (they) are driven to despairing situations.

Thanks for that, you've articulated exactly what I was trying to say. Very valid point about pnd.

It does seam to be accepted that it's nothing to be ashamed of if your a woman. But for men it's different, your somehow a failure if you don't have all the things you are supposed to have at x age.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:37
Aye Up
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PND is very specific I totally understand why it is treated separately. The same goes for adolescent issues - particularly eating disorders.

Is there a disparity between mental health provision for men and women? I would have thought if it's woefully inadequate for men - it'd be the same for women.
There is a massive disparity in mental health provision between men and women. In most cases for me, to be able to see a psychiartrist via the NHS you would have to be suffering from extreme illness like Bi-Polar or Schizophrenia.

I presented with severe depression and anxiety at the time of my initial diagnosis and was told by my GP I could only get help on the NHS if I was a basket case. If I was female I would have been seen within 72hrs.

Men have it shit when it comes to mental health provision on the NHS, in the 4+ years since I was diagnosed, nothing has changed. I still go privately out of my own pocket when I shouldn't have to, as like everyone else I pay in so I can get treatment as routinely as everyone else. Again I'm lucky, majority of men aren't.
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Old 03-01-2017, 13:05
Penny Crayon
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There is a massive disparity in mental health provision between men and women. In most cases for me, to be able to see a psychiartrist via the NHS you would have to be suffering from extreme illness like Bi-Polar or Schizophrenia.

I presented with severe depression and anxiety at the time of my initial diagnosis and was told by my GP I could only get help on the NHS if I was a basket case. If I was female I would have been seen within 72hrs.

Men have it shit when it comes to mental health provision on the NHS, in the 4+ years since I was diagnosed, nothing has changed. I still go privately out of my own pocket when I shouldn't have to, as like everyone else I pay in so I can get treatment as routinely as everyone else. Again I'm lucky, majority of men aren't.
That is shocking!! I had no idea. Why would that be the case?
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Old 03-01-2017, 13:48
LakieLady
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Mental health provision for men is woefully inadequate and should be addressed pronto. Yet for some reason the government and mental health charities seem to think its more of a more problem for adolescents and women struggling with PND.

Look at how shit things can be for men, its no wonder we (they) are driven to despairing situations.
Mental health provision is woefully inadequate across the board. The wait for an appointment for child/adolescent MH services where I live is now over a year, and it's hard to get a referral.

Adult MH services do not discriminate by sex. With the exception of PND/PPP, both sexes get equal access. If PND/PPP affected men, they would get equal access to those services, too. PND/PPP needs a different approach from other mental illnesses and has dedicated services because of the child protection aspect. Across the board, this is cost effective because it means fewer children taken into care.

The economic and social pressures you refer to affect men and women equally, although women are more likely to be responsible for caring for children. The real culprit is the NHS trusts and CCGs that don't fund MH care enough to meet the need.

Community services are particularly bad in my area, hardly anyone has a CPN or care co-ordinator, they're lucky to see their consultant twice a year for a medication review. Calling the community crisis team to report a deterioration in a patient's mental health results in a quick phone call to the patient from an overstretched nurse, if you're lucky. In the 3 months before Christmas, 2 of my clients ended up being admitted because the community service had failed to make an appropriate intervention. Last year, repeated calls about a client with a forensic history were not addressed and he ended up assaulting and seriously injuring his mother.

There is a dire shortage of beds, with people needing acute admission often placed 60 or 70 miles out of area. People are discharged from hospital with no ongoing support, so they end up being admitted again. The local DoP no longer has a patient welfare officer, so unless the patient has support in the community to help, they often end up getting their benefits stopped and ending up homeless while they're in hospital, and then discharged to sleep on the streets.

Until more resources are dedicated to mental health services, they will continue to fail some of the most vulnerable people. Trying to turn it into a gender issue is not helpful.
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Old 03-01-2017, 13:56
LakieLady
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I think for blokes, stress is expected, ie juggling the work/life balance and keeping up with deadlines & payments. And being constantly busy is sometimes seen as a desireable trait in an employee.
All of those apply equally to women in the workplace, too, and women are more likely to be looking after children, which is another pressure.

Employers have a duty of care when it comes to the the mental health of staff as well as their physical health and safety. Ime, they're generally pretty bad at discharging that duty. It's something they take very seriously where I work, which is sort of counter-productive. It sometimes puts staff off reporting stuff, because of all the endless "support" that is foisted on you.

Sorry about your colleague. I hope the company are looking at whether they could have handled his situation any better.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:03
LakieLady
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There is a massive disparity in mental health provision between men and women. In most cases for me, to be able to see a psychiartrist via the NHS you would have to be suffering from extreme illness like Bi-Polar or Schizophrenia.

I presented with severe depression and anxiety at the time of my initial diagnosis and was told by my GP I could only get help on the NHS if I was a basket case. If I was female I would have been seen within 72hrs.
You wouldn't get referred to a psych with anxiety and depression where I live. That's reserved for people with some element of psychosis, or so it seems.

If it is the case that your local trust has different thresholds for accessing services for males and females, that is discrimination and should be reported to the Equalities Commission or the Care Quality Commission.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:06
alan29
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Women are better organised than men when it comes to personal issues.
Just think of the pressure that the WI and more recently Mumsnet have been able to apply to successive governments through loud lobbying.
Do men have anything similar?
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:09
cheesy_pasty
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I'm sure there's a variety of reasons, mostly I'd say due to the ever increasing focus on women's issues at the expense of men's.

But there are other theories that are put forward. A favourite of mine from the world of modern day feminism, is because men feel less connected to their families and thus don't care about hurting them as much. Which sums up the sentiment from that point of view at least.

It's become acceptable to pound on men and their issues. We're striving for equality, but it's gone completely the other way now.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:13
Morlock
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It does seem you are looked after alot more if you have children, you can just work 2 days a week on nmw , get child tax credits, working tax credits and full housing benefit to give you the same income as if you had a 30-40k job.
So many inaccurate and lazy assumptions in one sentence that I'm not sure where to start with ripping your statement to pieces.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:37
Jellied Eel
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All of those apply equally to women in the workplace, too, and women are more likely to be looking after children, which is another pressure.
True, but there's still inequality, ie paternity vs maternity rights which could take some pressure off families. For single parents, obviously the stresses are increased and the tendancy to award custody of kids to mothers perhaps doesn't help.

Employers have a duty of care when it comes to the the mental health of staff as well as their physical health and safety...

Sorry about your colleague. I hope the company are looking at whether they could have handled his situation any better.
I think that may be where men are bad at asking for help. The shock in that example was nobody was aware there was a problem. I'd been out with him the week before and he'd seemed happy, and same with his manager and other co-workers. So it was a shame because he was a smart guy with a lot of potential, and we'd have tried to help if he'd asked.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:40
MARTYM8
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The role of men as heads of families and providers has been diminished in recent decades. If the government performs the role of breadwinner and father figure via the welfare system why would women need a real father for their kids.

Our welfare system actually encourages family break ups - and our kids pay for it as do we in the long term.

If you take away men's purpose and role in society - you will end up with them seeing no purpose in life.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:52
TheDC
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So many inaccurate and lazy assumptions in one sentence that I'm not sure where to start with ripping your statement to pieces.
Please do if I've got anything wrong. I'm talking from my experiences.
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Old 03-01-2017, 14:55
TheDC
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The role of men as heads of families and providers has been diminished in recent decades. If the government performs the role of breadwinner and father figure via the welfare system why would women need a real father for their kids.

Our welfare system actually encourages family break ups - and our kids pay for it as do we in the long term.
Totally agree. I blame Gordon brown, he wanted the state to become the new parent hence why I mentioned tax credits and housing benefit in my op. It's encouraging a lack of responsibility.
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Old 03-01-2017, 15:13
TheDC
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So many inaccurate and lazy assumptions in one sentence that I'm not sure where to start with ripping your statement to pieces.
I've just done the sums for a woman with two teenage children working 16 hours nmw living in bristol and they end up with 26.8k net so about the same as a 35k job. Plus any payments from the father do not affect benefits so if the dad is paying then they can earn about 40 k doing a min wage job for 16 hours a week.

8k housing benefit, 10k tax credits, 1.8k child benefit , 1k council tax support and 6k earnings.

Again if I've made a mistake do point it out.
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