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UK ambassador to EU resigns in row over Brexit


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Old 04-01-2017, 13:03
i4u
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That's the brexit way. Look at the hatchet job that the tabloids did when the supreme court had the sheer gall to state that Parliament should get a say in the process.

"openly gay fencing judges" was their response, plus they were branded as traitors etc.

Brexshitters want there to be a total echo chamber, filled with nothing more than positive, if totally incorrect and false, "news" about how the UK will be the world leader in everything as soon as we leave
Yes it does look like that....way before the Brexit result I pointed out the ardent Brexit MPs on the Tory take no prisoners....as we saw with Michael Gove stabbing Johnson in the back. And briefings by certain Brexit Ministers to undermine their chancellor.

Look how Iain Duncan Smith regularly pops up spitting venom, one would think it was orchestrated from within the cabinet.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:16
Miasima Goria
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Daniel Hannan has been suggested for the job. Just as well the EU does not have an army or he'd have provoked armed conflict by mid-April.

IDS is claiming Rogers was not trusted by the Cabinet.

And loyalty to the Govt seems to be the main requirement Rogers's replacement.

It should be fun.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:17
Mr Oleo Strut
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Yes it does look like that....way before the Brexit result I pointed out the ardent Brexit MPs on the Tory take no prisoners....as we saw with Michael Gove stabbing Johnson in the back. And briefings by certain Brexit Ministers to undermine their cfhancellor.

Look how Iain Duncan Smith regularly pops up spitting venom, one would think it was orchestrated from within the cabinet.
There is no doubt that many Brexit leading figures are not to be trusted. How far up or down their greasy pole that applies is increasingly coming under doubt but Brexit is certainly falling apart around the spivs and liars who devised it. Good riddance!
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:19
andykn
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Daniel Hannan has been suggested for the job. Just as well the EU does not have an army or he'd have provoked armed conflict by mid-April.

IDS is claiming Rogers was not trusted by the Cabinet.

And loyalty to the Govt seems to be the main requirement Rogers's replacement.

It should be fun.
Daniel Hannan is in favour of keeping Freedom of Movement I believe.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:20
i4u
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A great deal of hypocrisy on here by a number Leave votes...who throughout 2015 said the EU would offer Cameron nothing and it was a waste of time trying to negotiate with them.

Now in 2016 when a diplomat dares to tell the government what he knows following the Cameron negotiations, those same digital spy members are calling the EU Ambassador a traitor for confirming what they had been saying.

It is clear May, Davies, Hammond, Johnson & Fox are not all signing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to Brexit. We've had public spates between Ministers, slaps on wrists from Number 10 for all 3 Brexit Ministers.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:21
Doctor_Wibble
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And loyalty to the Govt seems to be the main requirement Rogers's replacement.
Isn't that slightly useful for the job of representing the government overseas? I'm surprised it's not a standard requirement of being an ambassador of anywhere to anywhere, having some sliver of sympathy to the government of one's own country would surely be advantageous to the effectiveness with which one carries out the role of representing said government?
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:28
Jayceef1
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He's not capable, as his previous advice in negotiations last year proved.
Precisely. If he was any good at negotiating he would have got Cameron a better deal. When the vote went against him he just wouldn't accept and kept throwing up barriers rather than helping. He is a clear remainer (being a PPS to Tony Blair and Ken Clarke helped) so has no heart in the job.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-months.html
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:32
Jayceef1
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A great deal of hypocrisy on here by a number Leave votes...who throughout 2015 said the EU would offer Cameron nothing and it was a waste of time trying to negotiate with them.

Now in 2016 when a diplomat dares to tell the government what he knows following the Cameron negotiations, those same digital spy members are calling the EU Ambassador a traitor for confirming what they had been saying.

It is clear May, Davies, Hammond, Johnson & Fox are not all signing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to Brexit. We've had public spates between Ministers, slaps on wrists from Number 10 for all 3 Brexit Ministers.
I think it is the Remainers being hypocritical. How long have they been banging on about the referendum being only advisory had that the government can ignore it, now saying that a europhile ambassador's advice should be taken without question.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:34
Eurostar
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Daniel Hannan has been suggested for the job. Just as well the EU does not have an army or he'd have provoked armed conflict by mid-April.

IDS is claiming Rogers was not trusted by the Cabinet.

And loyalty to the Govt seems to be the main requirement Rogers's replacement.

It should be fun.
Of course he wasn't. Rogers was telling them that Brexit could be an almighty mess and could take many years to implement and also that the negotiations could go horribly wrong because of lack of preparedness on the British side.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:35
Cheetah666
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Precisely. If he was any good at negotiating he would have got Cameron a better deal. When the vote went against him he just wouldn't accept and kept throwing up barriers rather than helping. He is a clear remainer (being a PPS to Tony Blair and Ken Clarke helped) so has no heart in the job.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-months.html
That article tells me all I need to know about the real reason why Rogers quit. He was being set up to be the fall guy when everything went pear shaped, and he was sharp enough to realise it. Now May and the three musketeers will have to look for another scapegoat when they come back with a shite deal.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:36
glasshalffull
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Good for him...we all learn that trying to holding a dialogue with the deliberately deaf and terminally stupid eventually damages your health...get out why you still have your sanity mate would be my advice.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:39
Jayceef1
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That article tells me all I need to know about the real reason why Rogers quit. He was being set up to be the fall guy when everything went pear shaped, and he was sharp enough to realise it. Now May and the three musketeers will have to look for another scapegoat when they come back with a shite deal.
Surely if he was set up to be the fall guy he would have been persuaded to stay. Nobody did.
Why would you want anyone to broker a deal for you who had the interests of the person you were dealing with ahead of your own?
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:42
Cheetah666
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Surely if he was set up to be the fall guy he would have been persuaded to stay. Nobody did.
Why would you want anyone to broker a deal for you who had the interests of the person you were dealing with ahead of your own?
He clearly wasn't for persuading. And it wasn't his job to broker the deal anyway, that's David Davis' role.

I can see this turning out to be like May's other pet project - the child abuse inquiry. Will we see one ambassador to the EU after another resigning when they realise they've been handed an impossible job?
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:43
jmclaugh
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Good for him...we all learn that trying to holding a dialogue with the deliberately deaf and terminally stupid eventually damages your health...get out why you still have your sanity mate would be my advice.
He's been doing that for some years at the EU.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:45
Ads
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Precisely. If he was any good at negotiating he would have got Cameron a better deal. When the vote went against him he just wouldn't accept and kept throwing up barriers rather than helping. He is a clear remainer (being a PPS to Tony Blair and Ken Clarke helped) so has no heart in the job.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-months.html
Sorry it's hard to take anyone seriously who gets their news on the EU from the Daily Mail.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:45
tim59
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I think it is the Remainers being hypocritical. How long have they been banging on about the referendum being only advisory had that the government can ignore it, now saying that a europhile ambassador's advice should be taken without question.
He has got out because people like davis and others have got thier heads up the own arses have not got a clue about things and are not willing to take any notice of people who do know things. Government ministers are not experts in any field at all, its always made a smile that one day you can have a government minister in charge of something like defence, then day day they are in charge of the NHS but the truth is they know nothing about either jobs
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:46
Eurostar
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Surely if he was set up to be the fall guy he would have been persuaded to stay. Nobody did.
Why would you want anyone to broker a deal for you who had the interests of the person you were dealing with ahead of your own?
There's no evidence of this and it sounds like a lame excuse by the Brexit camp to justify his absence. The idea being put forward that he would conspire with the EU to screw over Britain in the negotiations is a slur on his character.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:48
Jayceef1
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Sorry it's hard to take anyone seriously who gets their news on the EU from the Daily Mail.
No different to anyone (But mainly The Engineer) who constantly get their doom laden Brexit info from the Guardian.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:49
moox
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I think it is the Remainers being hypocritical. How long have they been banging on about the referendum being only advisory had that the government can ignore it, now saying that a europhile ambassador's advice should be taken without question.
Well yes, because there's a difference.

It was that man's job to be clued up on this stuff. An expert, if you will. So his opinions (or rather, actual hard facts) should be listened to.

There's no reason why "what the man down the pub/Farage/the Daily Mail/Vote Leave said" should be treated the same.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:51
Jayceef1
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There's no evidence of this and it sounds like a lame excuse by the Brexit camp to justify his absence. The idea being put forward that he would conspire with the EU to screw over Britain in the negotiations is a slur on his character.
I never said he conspired with the EU. The comment you highlight was about any deal in any business. You never get the right commitment if their heart isn't in the job.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:54
glasshalffull
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Well yes, because there's a difference.

It was that man's job to be clued up on this stuff. An expert, if you will. So his opinions (or rather, actual hard facts) should be listened to.

There's no reason why "what the man down the pub/Farage/the Daily Mail/Vote Leave said" should be treated the same.
Don't be silly...anyone who actually knows something/has experience is automatically "part of the elite" these days...and the Brexiters like to think they have rebelled against that...though the day they start lining up for the man down the pub/the local Kipper or even Nigel Farage to whip out their appendix rather some "part of the elite qualified surgeon who dares to have qualifications" I might be inclined to take their "rebellion" more seriously
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:55
Eurostar
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I never said he conspired with the EU. The comment you highlight was about any deal in any business. You never get the right commitment if their heart isn't in the job.
No, I'm talking about the reaction of the 'Brexit camp' in general and that of the right wing media. They're suggesting Rogers is a Europhile and too close to the EU, but according to those who know him, he is a proud Briton and would always seek to put the interests of the UK ahead of everything else.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:55
Thor_Noggsson
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You make some very chilling predictions, Nick, which could well come about. If they do I can foresee big trouble right across the country, in the workplace, the streets, pubs, clubs, factories, shops, banks, businesses, schools, colleges, universities and worst of all within families. The results would be catastrophic for the unity of the country and social cohesion. Judging by some of the comments on this and other political threads the 'leave' element are quite prepared to purge the UK of any dissenting opinions which is very disturbing - so much for free speech. I hope I am wrong but I am concerned that my poor old country is drifting towards being ungovernable, with social unrest and civil strife likely. All because of lies, bigotry, racism, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, greed and extreme nationalism. Heaven help us all. Our forebears would be deeply ashamed of what is going on and wonder why they were sacrificed for nothing. Get a grip UK before you self-destruct!
Oh for gods sake calm down.
You do realise that worst and best case scenarios very rarely come to pass.
What we'll end up with will be somewhere between what you describe above and the best possible exit deal.
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:56
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I never said he conspired with the EU. The comment you highlight was about any deal in any business. You never get the right commitment if their heart isn't in the job.
You are aware there are many thousands of civil servants working for the government who privately disagree with their policies? Should they all resign?
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Old 04-01-2017, 13:56
Beanybun
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He has got out because people like davis and others have got thier heads up the own arses have not got a clue about things and are not willing to take any notice of people who do know things. Government ministers are not experts in any field at all, its always made a smile that one day you can have a government minister in charge of something like defence, then day day they are in charge of the NHS but the truth is they know nothing about either jobs
There's a lot in this post; ministers are in reality the mouthpieces of their (supposedly apolitical) civil servants, delivering a mutually agreed message.

Re Brexit, there is no mutually agreed message, either because the ministers have failed to take any steps to identify what their negotiating stance will be and/or won't accept the advice they are receiving.

Either way an impasse has been reached and we're no further forward than we were 6 months ago...

Brexiters really want to cherry pick aspects of US system, so the Tory party presently in government (or the right wing headbanging wing thereof) can appoint a series of yes men to all key civil service roles, and onward they bluster.

This is yet another example of the Brexiters approach being entirely alien and contradictory to our system of parliamentary democracy. But in the world of the alt right, this is all just brushed away as a liberal, elitist, expert London conspiracy. Or something.
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