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UK ambassador to EU resigns in row over Brexit |
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#351 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 61
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I suspect this was just another piece of racketeering by the unholy trinity of bankers, politicians and media moguls. Politicians conspire with bankers to take some action that will cause a movement in the markets when the story is released to the press, like a drop in sterling (as occured on Tuesday), and they all make a killing from insider trading. It's a game that never ends, at least as long as we have the tories (or a blairite labour) in power, and the media will make sure of that too.
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#352 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,307
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#353 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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Congratulations on your excellent summary of the common-sense way of approaching a sensible and planned withdrawal from the EU. If only the slippery crew of right-wing spivs and carpet-baggers who have seized power in the UK would take note. Your wise words should be blazoned across the media.
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#354 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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It is certainly possible for a country to leave but it's something that would two or three years planning. The way I could see it work is a Eurosceptic party campaigning in a general election on a 'leave the EU' ticket, getting elected and then spending a couple of years in government putting preparations in place before finally triggering Article 50.
Holding a popular referendum on the subject, having no plans in place and you as the Government that are holding the referendum being completely opposed to the idea of leaving the EU, is the most chaotic and shambolic way of going about things and can only end badly. But we are here and must make the best of it.
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#355 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,591
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At least we agree on this. It would have been much better had a Brexit party with a plan and capable of running the country been elected. What's that old joke about asking an Irishman how to get somewhere? "If I were you I wouldn't start from here".
But we are here and must make the best of it. |
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#356 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,307
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Too good a phrase not to use in more than one thread, eh?
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#357 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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But not inaccurate.
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#358 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,675
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Isnt it? Many leading figures supporting Brexit are not those things.
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#359 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,688
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Really unfair for the departing diplomat to accuse the government of muddled thinking. There's no thinking at all, just muddle.
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#360 |
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,307
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Too good a phrase not to use in more than one thread, eh?
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#361 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 948
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That may well be true but unfortunately it is the "right-wing spivs and carpet-baggers" who are in charge of the process so it's their flavour of exit that we are going to get. Anyone expecting a left wing socialist exit are going to be very disappointed.
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#362 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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Yes, indeed, and I have many more in my quiver! I remember from my youth velvet-collared slippery sharp-suited spivs peddling snake-oil, but I never knew what carpet-baggers were until I read up that they were also smooth-talking con-men (and possibly women?). As far as I am concerned that description amply fits many of the right-wing xenophobic types leading the Brexit dance towards disaster, hence I have no hesitation in describing them as such. You cannot have too much of a good thing!
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#363 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,887
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Wasn't this the guy that advised David Cameron during the renegotiation? That wildly successful renegotiation that resulted in a defeat for the Remain side? I'm not why either Remainers or Leavers would be too upset at his departure.
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#364 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North London
Posts: 15,448
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Sir Ivan Rogers headed up the UKRep. This is the UK government body which explains UK policies to other EU member states and represents the UK in negotiations.
The UK government haven't updated their website yet. https://www.gov.uk/government/world/...tion-to-the-eu "Ivan Rogers, the UK’s Permanent Representative to the EU, has overall responsibility for the work of the mission and represents the UK at weekly Committee of Permanent Representatives (Coreper II) meetings in the Council of the European Union. Coreper II deals largely with political, financial, justice, policing and foreign policy issues." Another tiny careless Brexit mistake. |
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#365 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,675
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What would a left wing socialist exit look like?
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#366 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,876
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Sir Ivan Rogers headed up the UKRep. This is the UK government body which explains UK policies to other EU member states and represents the UK in negotiations.
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#367 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97,110
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That might go some way to explaining why most of the rest of the EU seem to have taken the vote for Brexit as being a declaration of war.
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#368 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,876
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The rest of the EU is pre-occupied with who will win the French and German Presidential elections. Those reults could have a far greater impact than Brexit. imo
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#369 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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I think it didn't go down well when he reported back to May that the other EU governments thought negotiations would take 10 years. A case of shooting the messenger.
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#370 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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He knows brexit is utterly impossible and has resigned with his dignity in tact.
We can only hope and pray MP's block brexit to prevent the utter destruction of our economy and way of life. Democracy has spoken - even if its said something profoundly dumb and suicidal. |
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#371 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,987
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He knows brexit is utterly impossible and has resigned with his dignity in tact.
We can only hope and pray MP's block brexit to prevent the utter destruction of our economy and way of life. |
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#372 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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It is certainly possible for a country to leave but it's something that would two or three years planning. The way I could see it work is a Eurosceptic party campaigning in a general election on a 'leave the EU' ticket, getting elected and then spending a couple of years in government putting preparations in place before finally triggering Article 50.
Holding a popular referendum on the subject, having no plans in place and you as the Government that are holding the referendum being completely opposed to the idea of leaving the EU, is the most chaotic and shambolic way of going about things and can only end badly. We can't do trade deals before we leave ,and they may take a decade. There's no point planning what we want in any detail - because what we get is in the hands of the 27 European governments . plus bits of Belgium, and all the MEP's Farage has insulted. We know what we need - from passporting to potato pickers, waitresses to street cleaners, to NHS staff, now. May already has got the only starting position she can have politically. The one clear promise from Leave was control, nationally, of immigration. Thats supported by most leavers and over half Remainers. Thats her redline. its open to wide interpretation, as Boris didn't promise any reduction, just control. The economic issues are confused by Boris claiming we could have free market access and immigration control . that has to be fought for, even if its a hopeless fight. Boris has to admit, to leavers, he was wrong , and blame the Europeans. Our policy is, thereafter, to get the best deal we can - no more , no less. And then sell it as the least damaging on offer, that, notionally, meets the public demand for immigration control . May's right on all of the above. The Civil Service faces obvious problems planning for the unknowable, with the inadequate. Its not helped by having the 3 amigos - who are here to sell the final deal to leave voters. . But it also has to remember, that she cant say the voters were dumb to choose this path, or that it will end in failure. Her job is to maintain some optimism , and get the least damaging deal she can. She can't ignore, or blame, the the public, she just has to get on with the problem they have set her, and which wiser men ran away from, in despair. What I might do, and Cameron might have done, is to let Parliament agree the immigration redline . Labour would be terribly split , the Conservatives fairly united , and the Liberals Greens , and Corbyn would be horribly exposed - championing unlimited immigration. That would at least establish her setting out point, and leave Boris and Davis to explain how little else they could get after. |
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#373 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,307
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I would have once agreed with you until maybe 18 months from the referendum when I started informing myself about the history of the EU, and how it works. I then realised that we've been lied to since we first joined the common market over 40 years ago. Lied to in a way that makes the 350 million quid poster on a Brexit bus look like a minuscule fib. But then we all perceive things differently.
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#374 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,484
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Don't you think that all the dead, injured and displaced of two world wars would have happily changed places with us and our European world if they could? Surely, we have a duty to respect their sacrifice and cooperate closely with our European neighbours so as to continue to avoid future problems. The EU is evolving and the UK needs to be right in the centre of it, not skulking in the long grass, cold and isolated,
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#375 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 8,253
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Don't you think that all the dead, injured and displaced of two world wars would have happily changed places with us and our European world if they could? Surely, we have a duty to respect their sacrifice and cooperate closely with our European neighbours so as to continue to avoid future problems. The EU is evolving and the UK needs to be right in the centre of it, not skulking in the long grass, cold and isolated,
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But we are here and must make the best of it.