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UK ambassador to EU resigns in row over Brexit


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Old 03-01-2017, 17:54
burneside
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In which case we should just accept FOM and make a deal. Easy. Everyone's a winner.

It's only the Brextreemists who are against free movement and are putting the chance of a good deal at risk.
I would say the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit are against FOM, otherwise it's not Brexit at all and the referendum may as well not have happened.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:58
moox
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I would say the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit are against FOM, otherwise it's not Brexit at all and the referendum may as well not have happened.
And this is the fundamental problem with the result. You don't know what they want. The only thing you can possibly glean is that they feel like leaving the EU. Doesn't say how they want it to work. Doesn't mean the country should go head first into a "hard Brexit".

There are also 16.1 million voters who would be opposed to that.

Of those 17 million brexit voters, many of them were lied to anyway, and possibly voted for reasons that will never ever become true.

And there are millions of people who cannot vote, or did not vote, whose opinion you don't know at all.
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Old 03-01-2017, 17:59
burneside
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And this is the fundamental problem with the result. You don't know what they want. The only thing you can possibly glean is that they feel like leaving the EU. Doesn't say how they want it to work. Doesn't mean the country should go head first into a "hard Brexit".

There are also 16.1 million voters who would be opposed to that.

Of those 17 million brexit voters, many of them were lied to anyway, and possibly voted for reasons that will never ever become true.

And there are millions of people who cannot vote, or did not vote, whose opinion you don't know at all.
Rules of the referendum; highest number of votes wins. End of.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:00
Dingbat
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What makes you think that a quick exit with no negotiations would give us the best deal possible? Or maybe you aren't interested in getting a good deal.
Some people hate this country that much that they want it to commit economic suicide.

I would say the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit are against FOM, otherwise it's not Brexit at all and the referendum may as well not have happened.
And of course you have asked every one of them?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:01
LostFool
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I would say the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit are against FOM, otherwise it's not Brexit at all
You have no evidence at all that all 17.4 million (or even the overwhelming majority of them) are against freedom of movement. Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU and they have free movement.

and the referendum may as well not have happened.
If only! Bit later for you to realise that though.

Look at it the other way around. If Remain had won 52:48 then that wouldn't have been a mandate for a "Hard Remain" with the government insisting that we adopt the Euro, give up our rebate and join Schengen. Remainers didn't vote for that so what makes you think that all Leavers want a hard a fast exit? If only 2% of those 52 are happy with FOM, single market/customs union membership then you have lost your majority.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:03
Cheetah666
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I would hope no negotiations would take place if our Nige was in charge, out and out quick.
You want to leave without negotiations? This just gets sillier and sillier.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:05
ireland2day
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The enormity of Brexit becoming clearer by the day yet so many remain in denial about the task ahead.
Enda Kenny was right when he said this deal could not be done in two years.

Looks like a messy unfinished poor deal is now on the cards unless some wake up to reality.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:05
trunkster
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Great news, should've gone on the 23rd June 2016
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:09
tiggertiny
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The resignation is very good news because what no one wants is to have someone on the team who doesn't want to be there and with basically a no can do mentality.

When you are a team the whole team pulls together and there can be no room for those not prepared to pull for the team.

The guy was wedded to the EU and it would have been a major mistake to have him anywhere near the negotiations.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:10
MARTYM8
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In which case we should just accept FOM and make a deal. Easy. Everyone's a winner.

It's only the Brextreemists who are against free movement and are putting the chance of a good deal at risk.
Any evidence for that?

Even senior Labour figures like Keir Starmer and Andy Burnham say it needs to be reformed considerably as its not working. It's about us deciding who can come here not Brussels so we can plan properly for housing, schools and infrastructure - and then reduce numbers when they get out of control.

Free movement was fine when it was a Western European club with similar economies, wages and welfare systems. It cannot work when you have members whose average wage is less than half the minimum wage in others - it depresses wages in the latter and results in a brain drain and loss of young people in the former.

We worry about who is going to look after our elderly - but there are lots of elderly who need care in Eastern Europe too.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:10
pedrok
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What experience, like how many 'Brexits' has he done?
How many Brexit has anyone done?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:12
tiggertiny
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How dare the EU ambassador make informed comments about how long it will take based on his experience. Does he not know such things aren't allowed any more?
When did he have first hand experience of a country leaving?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:12
James2001
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How many Brexit has anyone done?
The same number as Farage, Johnson, Gove, May...
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:15
tiggertiny
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The same number as Farage, Johnson, Gove, May...
So he has no experience of a country leaving as your original statement said.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:16
LostFool
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Free movement was fine when it was a Western European club with similar economies, wages and welfare systems. It cannot work when you have members whose average wage is less than half the minimum wage in others - it depresses wages in the latter and results in a brain drain and loss of young people in the former.
If Freedom of Movement is so bad for eastern European countries then why are they so in favour of it?

We worry about who is going to look after our elderly - but there are lots of elderly who need care in Eastern Europe too.
So if we withdraw from the single market then people from eastern Europe will still be able to move to Ireland, Sweden, Germany and other wealthy western countries and we'll still have the problem of caring for our elderly. How are we in a better position?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:20
James2001
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So he has no experience of a country leaving as your original statement said.
But he has experience of his interactions with various European leaders and other people who know what they're talking about on these issues. Certainly a lot more experience than Fag-ash Farage will ever have. You know exactly what I meant, you're just nit-picking.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:20
Dingbat
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So he has no experience of a country leaving as your original statement said.
But he does have extensive experience of dealing with governments of all of the other countries in the EU, plus the Commission, Council of Ministers, and Parliament.

Which of course means he's one of those people who are apparently now to be despised in this modern mad world - an expert.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:22
Dacco
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In which case we should just accept FOM and make a deal. Easy. Everyone's a winner.
Fishing?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:24
LostFool
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What about it?

I haven't noticed any shortage of fish in the shops. Or maybe you are against the freedom of movement of cod.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:24
Andrew1954
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If he can't put his own opinions on one side and serve his country and HMG to the best of his ability then it's better he goes and we are better off without him.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:26
ireland2day
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The Daily Express has a lead story headlining Nigel backed for top Brussels job and the article mentons Rogers' replacement.

It's a UKIP MEP backing him.
What a joke of a newspaper' I thought it might include a neutral or prominent non UKIP person.
What an embarassment the DE is to British media.
It's beyond a joke.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:29
Brigon
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Actually, he merely reported back that other EU leaders thought it would take 10 years. That wasn't his personal opinion.
Sounds like our Government of sick of hearing from experts.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:30
Wolfman13
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The Daily Express has a lead story headlining Nigel backed for top Brussels job and the article mentons Rogers' replacement.

It's a UKIP MEP backing him.
What a joke of a newspaper' I thought it might include a neutral or prominent non UKIP person.
What an embarassment the DE is to British media.
It's beyond a joke.
If it's so much of a joke why read it or is it so you can be outraged?
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:30
Dacco
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But he does have extensive experience of dealing with governments of all of the other countries in the EU, plus the Commission, Council of Ministers, and Parliament.
His expertise didn't help Cameron with his negotiating a new deal, therefore, his experience although extensive is overwhelmed by his requirement to bent over, pants down in front of the EU commission taking everything they give........ Not the expertise we require at the moment I'm afraid.
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Old 03-01-2017, 18:31
James2001
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Sounds like our Government of sick of hearing from experts.
They'd rather listen to the old bloke down the pub ranting about "bloody foreigners" and how "things were better in the old days".
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