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UK ambassador to EU resigns in row over Brexit |
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#201 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
You seem to be assuming that the deal Cameron negotiated wasn't based on the advice the ambassador gave, why's that? Do you have inside info?
Cameron may have decided that a few token gestures could be negotiated quickly and would be "enough" when far more could have been available. |
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#202 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Politicisation of civil service is what Brexiteers want.
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#203 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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No - my point is that he would give Cameron the options and leave the choice to him.
Cameron may have decided that a few token gestures could be negotiated quickly and would be "enough" when far more could have been available. |
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#204 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,687
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Quote:
Are you seriously saying he was impartial?
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#205 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
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The Government can choose the most compliant lackey they can find. It will be of absolutely no use to them whatsoever once the suicide button has been pressed and they're being owned by the hugely experienced EU negotiators. They may hate the messages brought, but they can only live in denial for so long.
IDS was pathetic as ever this morning on the matter. His gullible supporters may be happy with "Brexit means Brexit", but the rest of the world is laughing. We are truly lambs to the slaughter. |
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#206 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,408
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Quote:
Team Leave are calling for a pro-Exit Ambassador so they don't want someone impartial.
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#207 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,592
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Team Leave are calling for a pro-Exit Ambassador so they don't want someone impartial.
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#208 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,438
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Ideally you want someone who is impartial in terms of the advice they give but committed to the process in respect of which they are advising. The concern in this case was that he was/is neither of those things.
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#209 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,527
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Now you're just making stuff up to suit your failed argument - you don't know do you
None of us know what Cameron was told. |
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#210 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Quote:
I have had dealings with the Civil Service and know the way they work.
None of us know what Cameron was told. So if an avid remainer like Cameron chose to ignore Lansdale's advise why would the Leave camp want or seek his advice? |
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#211 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Quote:
The Government can choose the most compliant lackey they can find. It will be of absolutely no use to them whatsoever once the suicide button has been pressed and they're being owned by the hugely experienced EU negotiators. They may hate the messages brought, but they can only live in denial for so long.
IDS was pathetic as ever this morning on the matter. His gullible supporters may be happy with "Brexit means Brexit", but the rest of the world is laughing. We are truly lambs to the slaughter. |
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#212 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,189
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Quote:
Ideally you want someone who is impartial in terms of the advice they give but committed to the process in respect of which they are advising. The concern in this case was that he was/is neither of those things. Would be like having Nick Clegg or Peter Mandelson as our chief negotiator.
Quote:
Writing to staff, Sir Ivan Rogers said ministers needed to hear "unvarnished" and "uncomfortable" views from Europe.
Sir Ivan's note to staff, obtained by the BBC, confirmed this but also warned the "government will only achieve the best for the country if it harnesses the best experience we have". The clear implication is that the advice the UK's ambassador to the EU has been giving has fallen on deaf ears in Downing Street. |
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#213 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,483
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Quote:
Are you seriously saying he was impartial?
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#214 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,483
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Quote:
So if an avid remainer like Cameron chose to ignore Lansdale's advise why would the Leave camp want or seek his advice?
Neither of us knows. |
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#215 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,408
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When did Sir Ivan Rogers replace David Davies as our chief negotiator or are you letting your imagination run wild?
The issue is how far his views were objective or subjective. |
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#216 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,408
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Casting aspersions on someone's personal trustworthiness because you don't like what they are saying is pretty desperate stuff, to be honest. Maybe you have inside personal information to back up that aspersion.
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#217 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,224
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Quote:
Are you seriously saying he was impartial?
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#218 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Did he? Or did he listen and decide to try to negotiate from a poor position anyway?
Neither of us knows. |
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#219 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Quote:
Are you saying he was not impartial, do you have any evidence to back this up ? or is it not saying what we want to to say means you are not impartial, saying the truth means not impartial, being a yes men means you are impartial
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#220 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,224
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He was an avid remainer, which hardly makes him impartial does it.
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#221 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,637
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So working on your way of thinking, anyone in government or anyone in the civil service who voted to remain should loose thier jobs and be replaced, because its not possible to do thier jobs as they cannot be impartial ?
"openly gay fencing judges" was their response, plus they were branded as traitors etc. Brexshitters want there to be a total echo chamber, filled with nothing more than positive, if totally incorrect and false, "news" about how the UK will be the world leader in everything as soon as we leave |
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#222 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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So working on your way of thinking, anyone in government or anyone in the civil service who voted to remain should loose thier jobs and be replaced, because its not possible to do thier jobs as they cannot be impartial ?
Would your firm place someone in charge of a relocation who wanted to stay put? |
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#223 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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That's the brexit way. Look at the hatchet job that the tabloids did when the supreme court had the sheer gall to state that Parliament should get a say in the process.
"openly gay fencing judges" was their response, plus they were branded as traitors etc. Brexshitters want there to be a total echo chamber, filled with nothing more than positive, if totally incorrect and false, "news" about how the UK will be the world leader in everything as soon as we leave |
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#224 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,637
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Quote:
The person leading the negotiations should be impartial or someone who wants Brexit to work. He was a rabid Europhile and his heart obviously wasn't in it.
It's nothing more than fiction, invented by Brexshitters who can't understand how the civil service works... Besides, this guy was reporting the facts. "wanting Brexit to work" will not change the fact that it will be a long and arduous process that will ultimately be utterly pointless, but damaging for the UK |
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#225 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
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Quote:
Woe woe thrice is woe, the remain soothsayer has spoken
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