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Old Yesterday, 18:47
skp20040
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I don't believe an individual is strange simply because they have questions and feel based on past experience the police can't be trusted on incidents such as this. I don't think that's strange as such. You may not agree with her point of view but I don't think she should be attacked for asking questions.



Well that's a curious question because in this particular photo:

http://i4.manchestereveningnews.co.u...s615/m62-2.jpg

The setup of the cars, the bullet holes and where the driver was shot would suggest the shots were fired from within the police car at the driver of the other car. In that scenario would it be possible for the police marksman to issue a warning or a clear request to drop the weapon? Consider that the engine may have still been running on the car the shot individual was in. And it wad dark outside due to the time. Also this would ask a question of would the view from inside the police car offer a definitive confirmation that the individual was armed and a clear threat to life?



Oh come on now. The media decide how they report these incidents. It's got nothing to do with local residents. The media pick the angle they want to report and they don't care about the consequences. It's trial by media.

The best example is the photo all of the media used of Mark Duggan after his shooting. The one that looked like he was stood looking menacing in his coat. The family complained that this photo had been intentionally cropped to remove the fact he was holding a heart memorial stone. It's little decisions like that which people have a problem with. The media know exactly what they're doing. It sells papers. Doesn't make it right or correct.



Well that goes to the argument of if people should be shot simply for being armed or should they only be shot if it's clear they're preparing to shoot upon police officers. I would hope it's the later scenario and I would hope the officer who opened fire in this incident had clear sight of a gun being pointed at the officers. But then we get into the question of did the man who was shot know the car ramming him off the road was a police car? We'll find out the details shortly I imagine.
The media do go to the gutter we know but the comments they are reporting are from local people some giving their names so this lady should take issue with the press and those people

I wouldn't say it is only indicative of the shot coming from inside the police car, having blocked him in the officer could have been at the front of the police car and shot into the window. Also was Yassar Yaqub driving ? (they mention his car) if so then they could not have shot from within the car as that would have meant the angle would mean the passenger was shot or the officer had to lean right out of the police car beyond waist level across the bonnet to shoot the driver. I would say it is more indicative of the officer being in front of the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxe4Y95GJIA
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Old Yesterday, 18:47
Jellied Eel
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Do you (or anybody you know) drive around with a gun in the boot of their car ?
I have in the past. Carrying them in the passenger seat or glove compartment would have resulted in the loss of my FAC if I'd been stopped.

(I think now FAC's require a lockable container fixed to the vehicle for transport.)
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Old Yesterday, 18:49
EvieJ
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I think you're showing misunderstanding of the term "social justice". Unless you are suggesting he was targeted because he was black or a Muslim ?
But that's clearly nonsense, he was targeted because of his known criminal activity. Even sensible members within the community don't deny that. The question still remains whether or not it was a lawful killing, and that is being investigated.
Social justice is not purely about race but perhaps I am. Lets clarify, what sympathy were you referring to in your original post?
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Old Yesterday, 19:00
Deep Purple
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Hmmm. Would that be the case if the gun had been in the boot of the car, and couldn't be accessed by any of the occupants without them getting out and opening the boot?

That would have posed very little threat imo.

Still, we know very little yet, and will have to wait till the inquiry reports.
That's why I have repeated we wont know anything until it goes to court. My comment was that the intelligence was good, and the operation was justified. What happened at the stop will be decided on whether the force was reasonable, and none of us know that.

we do know that the suspects had a gun though, which justified an armed response.
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Old Yesterday, 19:02
Inspiration
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Also was Yassar Yaqub driving ? (they mention his car) if so then they could not have shot from within the car as that would have meant the angle would mean the passenger was shot or the officer had to lean right out of the police car beyond waist level across the bonnet to shoot the driver. I would say it is more indicative of the officer being in front of the car.
I'm going to go with passenger and shots fired from car to car based on his photo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d...83o1-large.jpg

There is first aid equipment on the passenger side also. Although that may be because the other side was blocked in by the police car. We'll find out soon enough I'm sure.
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Old Yesterday, 19:04
Deep Purple
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I have in the past. Carrying them in the passenger seat or glove compartment would have resulted in the loss of my FAC if I'd been stopped.

(I think now FAC's require a lockable container fixed to the vehicle for transport.)
I dont think these people were FAC holders, carrying the gun for lawful purposes. I'm sure some will want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that though.
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Old Yesterday, 19:08
Jellied Eel
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I would say it is more indicative of the officer being in front of the car.
Yup. Plus reports said the road had been closed previously, so there may have been marked cars at the bottom of the slip road for the stop. I think this is the location-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.67...7i13312!8i6656

So any road block would have been concealed.
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Old Yesterday, 19:13
anne_666
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Yes you were, very specific. Partial post, ignoring the point I was responding to,

He/she will never accept any argument except that the police are a bunch of trigger happy morons who enjoy shooting innocent criminals

but hey what more could I hope for?
What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not interested in your on-going dispute with another FM, I was responding to that particular false accusation in your post.
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Old Yesterday, 19:14
Jellied Eel
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I dont think these people were FAC holders, carrying the gun for lawful purposes. I'm sure some will want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that though.
Based on comments from family & friends, I'm thinking a thorough HMRC audit might be in order.. Which would no doubt add to the claims that respectable businessmen are being victimised.
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Old Yesterday, 19:15
LakieLady
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Do you (or anybody you know) drive around with a gun in the boot of their car ?
I know several people who shoot game, including deer, and they undoubtedly carry their (licensed and legal) shotguns in their cars from time to time. One also has a rifle licence, as he shoots deer.

When I first moved down from London, it freaked me out a bit, coming across armed men in woods etc, but I'm used to it now. I'd have a go myself, but my dismal performance at shooting clays has rather discouraged me.
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Old Yesterday, 19:18
Maxatoria
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I have in the past. Carrying them in the passenger seat or glove compartment would have resulted in the loss of my FAC if I'd been stopped.

(I think now FAC's require a lockable container fixed to the vehicle for transport.)
Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
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Old Yesterday, 19:20
Deep Purple
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I know several people who shoot game, including deer, and they undoubtedly carry their (licensed and legal) shotguns in their cars from time to time. One also has a rifle licence, as he shoots deer.

When I first moved down from London, it freaked me out a bit, coming across armed men in woods etc, but I'm used to it now. I'd have a go myself, but my dismal performance at shooting clays has rather discouraged me.
Perhaps they were Gamekeepers on their way to work when they were stopped and shot for no reason.
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Old Yesterday, 19:22
Jellied Eel
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I'm going to go with passenger and shots fired from car to car based on his photo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d...83o1-large.jpg

There is first aid equipment on the passenger side also. Although that may be because the other side was blocked in by the police car. We'll find out soon enough I'm sure.
I doubt it, and reckon from front of the car. Firing from the Merc either front or rear passenger side would be very awkward/unsafe, especially as that was the stop car and might have taken damage to the passenger side. Plus it'd have put anyone in the passenger seat at risk. The first aid kit is probably on the passenger side because that would be the quickest way to get paramedic access to the driver.

Angle looks more like from the front, which would make more sense as it'd give the officer a better view of the driver, and the driver of the armed officer.
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Old Yesterday, 19:22
RichmondBlue
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Social justice is not purely about race but perhaps I am. Lets clarify, what sympathy were you referring to in your original post?
I was just making a general observation. Plenty of sympathy on social media.
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Old Yesterday, 19:22
EvieJ
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What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not interested in your on-going dispute with another FM, I was responding to that particular false accusation in your post.
Ongoing dispute? False accusation? Bit dramatic.

I think the partial quote you took exception to was a part of a perfectly reasonable response to the post I was replying to.
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Old Yesterday, 19:23
Deep Purple
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
I think the Police sacked him, and a tribunal overturned the decision. Wrongly in my opinion.
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Old Yesterday, 19:25
EvieJ
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Perhaps they were Gamekeepers on their way to work when they were stopped and shot for no reason.
Like Jean Charles de Menezes?
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Old Yesterday, 19:29
Jellied Eel
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor..
I'd suggest at that moment, the weapon was not on the floor and the officer may not have been in full control of it..

(Plus ARV's usually have some way to secure firearms inside the vehicle)
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Old Yesterday, 19:32
EvieJ
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
Wiggle, push, BJ is this police talk?
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Old Yesterday, 19:33
NorthernNinny
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You really don't understand the difference in sympathy and social justice?
If he does turn out to be a drug dealer then social justice has been done.
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Old Yesterday, 19:35
Maxatoria
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I'd suggest at that moment, the weapon was not on the floor and the officer may not have been in full control of it..

(Plus ARV's usually have some way to secure firearms inside the vehicle)
Ok it may not of been on the floor as there may of been a bit of the officers uniform between it and the floor but lets just say he was stupid and even if he got promoted to get him out of his level of stupidity it's not great to be getting a bit of pleasure when you are in charge of a weapon of mass killing in theory.
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Old Yesterday, 19:58
ayrshireman1
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I think you've replied to wrong person Anne. The thread is littered with applause for the death of a man who hasn't been convicted of anything, not to mention the criticism of his family. 'Not letting go' is IMO offering a bit of balance, tut on a discussion forum of all places.
Most DS'ers are glad to see the back of a major drug-dealer and all round local headcase/thug. Irrespective of what race or religion he was. Most of us see this operation as a legitimate killing of a gun-toting criminal.

If that offends you, tough.
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Old Yesterday, 20:08
Jellied Eel
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Most DS'ers are glad to see the back of a major drug-dealer and all round local headcase/thug. Irrespective of what race or religion he was. Most of us see this operation as a legitimate killing of a gun-toting criminal.
TBH, I'd rather have seen him rot in jail having passed through the justice system. That way, guilt is more established and there's less speculation and (anti)social media commentary.. Not to mention making BLM look a bit foolish fundraising.

Then again, it may also discourage people from following in his footsteps. Being a flash gangster and going around tooled up may impress some people, but also tends to draw attention.. Either from officials, or rivals.. And then innocent people end up risking being caught in the crossfire of turf wars.
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Old Yesterday, 20:09
Maxatoria
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Wiggle, push, BJ is this police talk?
The words gangam style probably are the best
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Old Yesterday, 20:14
soap-lea
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A man called Moshin Amin from Dewsbury has been charged with firearms offences and is due to appear in court tomorrow.

charges relate to a loaded semi automatic handgun capable of firing 9mm ammunition.

charges are - charged with possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence , possession of a sound moderator and possession of ammunition.

all in connection with the incident the other night

the other two have been released on police bail pending further inquiries. so 4 of the 5 arrested now on bail
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