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Old 05-01-2017, 19:00
Deep Purple
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Hmmm. Would that be the case if the gun had been in the boot of the car, and couldn't be accessed by any of the occupants without them getting out and opening the boot?

That would have posed very little threat imo.

Still, we know very little yet, and will have to wait till the inquiry reports.
That's why I have repeated we wont know anything until it goes to court. My comment was that the intelligence was good, and the operation was justified. What happened at the stop will be decided on whether the force was reasonable, and none of us know that.

we do know that the suspects had a gun though, which justified an armed response.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:02
Inspiration
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Also was Yassar Yaqub driving ? (they mention his car) if so then they could not have shot from within the car as that would have meant the angle would mean the passenger was shot or the officer had to lean right out of the police car beyond waist level across the bonnet to shoot the driver. I would say it is more indicative of the officer being in front of the car.
I'm going to go with passenger and shots fired from car to car based on his photo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d...83o1-large.jpg

There is first aid equipment on the passenger side also. Although that may be because the other side was blocked in by the police car. We'll find out soon enough I'm sure.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:04
Deep Purple
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I have in the past. Carrying them in the passenger seat or glove compartment would have resulted in the loss of my FAC if I'd been stopped.

(I think now FAC's require a lockable container fixed to the vehicle for transport.)
I dont think these people were FAC holders, carrying the gun for lawful purposes. I'm sure some will want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that though.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:08
Jellied Eel
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I would say it is more indicative of the officer being in front of the car.
Yup. Plus reports said the road had been closed previously, so there may have been marked cars at the bottom of the slip road for the stop. I think this is the location-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.67...7i13312!8i6656

So any road block would have been concealed.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:13
anne_666
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Yes you were, very specific. Partial post, ignoring the point I was responding to,

He/she will never accept any argument except that the police are a bunch of trigger happy morons who enjoy shooting innocent criminals

but hey what more could I hope for?
What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not interested in your on-going dispute with another FM, I was responding to that particular false accusation in your post.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:14
Jellied Eel
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I dont think these people were FAC holders, carrying the gun for lawful purposes. I'm sure some will want to give them the benefit of the doubt on that though.
Based on comments from family & friends, I'm thinking a thorough HMRC audit might be in order.. Which would no doubt add to the claims that respectable businessmen are being victimised.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:15
LakieLady
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Do you (or anybody you know) drive around with a gun in the boot of their car ?
I know several people who shoot game, including deer, and they undoubtedly carry their (licensed and legal) shotguns in their cars from time to time. One also has a rifle licence, as he shoots deer.

When I first moved down from London, it freaked me out a bit, coming across armed men in woods etc, but I'm used to it now. I'd have a go myself, but my dismal performance at shooting clays has rather discouraged me.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:18
Maxatoria
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I have in the past. Carrying them in the passenger seat or glove compartment would have resulted in the loss of my FAC if I'd been stopped.

(I think now FAC's require a lockable container fixed to the vehicle for transport.)
Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:20
Deep Purple
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I know several people who shoot game, including deer, and they undoubtedly carry their (licensed and legal) shotguns in their cars from time to time. One also has a rifle licence, as he shoots deer.

When I first moved down from London, it freaked me out a bit, coming across armed men in woods etc, but I'm used to it now. I'd have a go myself, but my dismal performance at shooting clays has rather discouraged me.
Perhaps they were Gamekeepers on their way to work when they were stopped and shot for no reason.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:22
Jellied Eel
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I'm going to go with passenger and shots fired from car to car based on his photo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d...83o1-large.jpg

There is first aid equipment on the passenger side also. Although that may be because the other side was blocked in by the police car. We'll find out soon enough I'm sure.
I doubt it, and reckon from front of the car. Firing from the Merc either front or rear passenger side would be very awkward/unsafe, especially as that was the stop car and might have taken damage to the passenger side. Plus it'd have put anyone in the passenger seat at risk. The first aid kit is probably on the passenger side because that would be the quickest way to get paramedic access to the driver.

Angle looks more like from the front, which would make more sense as it'd give the officer a better view of the driver, and the driver of the armed officer.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:22
RichmondBlue
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Social justice is not purely about race but perhaps I am. Lets clarify, what sympathy were you referring to in your original post?
I was just making a general observation. Plenty of sympathy on social media.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:22
EvieJ
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What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not interested in your on-going dispute with another FM, I was responding to that particular false accusation in your post.
Ongoing dispute? False accusation? Bit dramatic.

I think the partial quote you took exception to was a part of a perfectly reasonable response to the post I was replying to.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:23
Deep Purple
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
I think the Police sacked him, and a tribunal overturned the decision. Wrongly in my opinion.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:25
EvieJ
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Perhaps they were Gamekeepers on their way to work when they were stopped and shot for no reason.
Like Jean Charles de Menezes?
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:29
Jellied Eel
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor..
I'd suggest at that moment, the weapon was not on the floor and the officer may not have been in full control of it..

(Plus ARV's usually have some way to secure firearms inside the vehicle)
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:32
EvieJ
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Police officers are allowed to get a BJ while their weapon is on the floor and keep their job so I think theres a certain amount of wiggle room if you have to push it.
Wiggle, push, BJ is this police talk?
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:33
NorthernNinny
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You really don't understand the difference in sympathy and social justice?
If he does turn out to be a drug dealer then social justice has been done.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:35
Maxatoria
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I'd suggest at that moment, the weapon was not on the floor and the officer may not have been in full control of it..

(Plus ARV's usually have some way to secure firearms inside the vehicle)
Ok it may not of been on the floor as there may of been a bit of the officers uniform between it and the floor but lets just say he was stupid and even if he got promoted to get him out of his level of stupidity it's not great to be getting a bit of pleasure when you are in charge of a weapon of mass killing in theory.
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Old 05-01-2017, 19:58
ayrshireman1
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I think you've replied to wrong person Anne. The thread is littered with applause for the death of a man who hasn't been convicted of anything, not to mention the criticism of his family. 'Not letting go' is IMO offering a bit of balance, tut on a discussion forum of all places.
Most DS'ers are glad to see the back of a major drug-dealer and all round local headcase/thug. Irrespective of what race or religion he was. Most of us see this operation as a legitimate killing of a gun-toting criminal.

If that offends you, tough.
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:08
Jellied Eel
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Most DS'ers are glad to see the back of a major drug-dealer and all round local headcase/thug. Irrespective of what race or religion he was. Most of us see this operation as a legitimate killing of a gun-toting criminal.
TBH, I'd rather have seen him rot in jail having passed through the justice system. That way, guilt is more established and there's less speculation and (anti)social media commentary.. Not to mention making BLM look a bit foolish fundraising.

Then again, it may also discourage people from following in his footsteps. Being a flash gangster and going around tooled up may impress some people, but also tends to draw attention.. Either from officials, or rivals.. And then innocent people end up risking being caught in the crossfire of turf wars.
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:09
Maxatoria
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Wiggle, push, BJ is this police talk?
The words gangam style probably are the best
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:14
soap-lea
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A man called Moshin Amin from Dewsbury has been charged with firearms offences and is due to appear in court tomorrow.

charges relate to a loaded semi automatic handgun capable of firing 9mm ammunition.

charges are - charged with possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence , possession of a sound moderator and possession of ammunition.

all in connection with the incident the other night

the other two have been released on police bail pending further inquiries. so 4 of the 5 arrested now on bail
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:18
TerraCanis
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charges are - charged with possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence , possession of a sound moderator and possession of ammunition
Commonly known as a "silencer"?
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:19
seacam
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What's the alternative when faced with armed criminals? As not all persons shot die, it clearly isn't a kill outcome everytime. The monster that killed Lee Rigby was shot, but is still with us.
If armed police need to shoot, what do you suggest they do?

If anything is going to 'backfire', it is the rest of us fed up of gunned up drug dealers who pretend to be misunderstood minorities.
You seem incapable of understanding the difference between intent and outcome.
I don't have an issue with this man dying, I'm questioning if it was necessary?

I think I read somewhere, no body cams' and no CCTV.

I accept this operation was intelligence led, but why that spot, that slip road to bring it to it's conclusion, why?

To me it was a turkey shoot, a turkey shoot is an ambush, did a person have to die?
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Old 05-01-2017, 20:20
EvieJ
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Most DS'ers are glad to see the back of a major drug-dealer and all round local headcase/thug. Irrespective of what race or religion he was. Most of us see this operation as a legitimate killing of a gun-toting criminal.

If that offends you, tough.
So it seems, Sun under one arm, pitchforks highly raised in the other without establishing the the truth. And the fact you have even mentioned his race/religion suggests its more relevant to you than you care to admit.
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