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Unread Yesterday, 11:23
Keyser_Soze1
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Has there been mention anywhere of Yasser Yaqub having a job, by that I mean a bonefide job not drug dealer, even if said 'job' was just a cover to explain him having money.
I remember a bloke called Yosser Hughes who was always asking for a job.
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Unread Yesterday, 11:29
Nilrem
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Duggan was shot in the middle of a High St, Baker in a residential estate
Criminals don't always do what the police would like*, but if possilbe armed police like to do the stops somewhere with a low bystander count.
For a criminal operating in and around a large city, and travelling in that city it's obviously not going to be possible to do it away from other people completely, but it may be possible to do it away from say a busy shop or school (IIRC in the Duggan case they did the stop next to a park, which was probably about as good as you could get for a relatively low bystander count in the area).

*Although some are surprisingly obliging (every time I hear of one forgetting to pick his phone up at a burglary or other crime scene I have a laugh to myself).
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Unread Yesterday, 11:57
LakieLady
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Perhaps they were Gamekeepers on their way to work when they were stopped and shot for no reason.


Are there grouse moors up there? Or just pheasant?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:00
LakieLady
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If he does turn out to be a drug dealer then social justice has been done.

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer justice done by due process - you know, trials, juries judges, that kind of stuff.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:01
Jellied Eel
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Are there grouse moors up there? Or just pheasant?
#GamekeepersLivesMatter donate now!
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Unread Yesterday, 12:04
LakieLady
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A man called Moshin Amin from Dewsbury has been charged with firearms offences and is due to appear in court tomorrow.

charges relate to a loaded semi automatic handgun capable of firing 9mm ammunition.

charges are - charged with possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence , possession of a sound moderator and possession of ammunition.
So was there more than one gun, or was the wrong man shot?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:07
Decepticons1
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Funny how the Black Live Matter people have gotten involved stating it was racially motivated. Guess it doesn't matter what a person may have done criminally or what the facts are anymore, it's all down to skin color. BLM idiots making themselves look real smart as always.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:12
LakieLady
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More detail here http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-...ssing-12413114

So loaded gun in vehicle no excuses not to be shot.
Ffs, since when was everyone in a car responsible for whatever was in the possession of everyone else?

In my misspent South London youth, I was slightly acquainted with someone who, unbeknown to me, was a complete villain who regularly carried a gun. I dread to think how many times I and my friends got lifts with him. Did we deserve to be shot for being naive girls who found bad boys exciting?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:15
grauniad
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Will the finding of the gun mean he won't meet the virgins?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:15
Bagshot85
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Has there been mention anywhere of Yasser Yaqub having a job, by that I mean a bonefide job not drug dealer, even if said 'job' was just a cover to explain him having money.
Apparently his dad's the one who's quoted as saying he would buy his son the cars, as he worked in the business.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:18
Jellied Eel
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Guess it doesn't matter what a person may have done criminally or what the facts are anymore, it's all down to skin color. BLM idiots making themselves look real smart as always.
According to the initial coroner's report, the victim's occupation was 'office clerk'. Must have been some office.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:25
Bagshot85
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A few years ago, as later related to me by my son, (whilst I was several miles away, attending my cousin's funeral) he said sometime between one to one and a half hours after receiving such information, several armed police will cautiously approach your house, using parked vehicles as cover (as it is approx 4pm and still broad daylight). They then knock at your door, giving you a chance to open it voluntarily (with battering ram thingy at the ready, in case you don't). You open the door, to see several firearms being pointed directly at you and immediately put your hands in the air to show you're no threat to them and ask them what the hell is going on. They then inform you they have had a report of a gun being fired from an upstairs window and that they are coming in to search the house, asking if you have a gun and if so, where is it now. You tell them yes, there is a gun up in your bedroom, but it is only an air-gun and you don't even have any pellets for it.

You show them where the air-gun is and they then thoroughly search for any other guns and/or ammunition (finding no evidence of either), whilst asking if you were firing the gun earlier from an upstairs window. You say yes, you were messing about with it, firing it at some friends and shouting "Gerrorf moi land!" in a jokey voice as they were leaving your house. As it had no pellets, it was obviously just blasting air out and they were quite some distance away, standing on the path outside, laughing their heads off. You then put the gun away and quickly forget all about this 'shooting incident', as a) it was no big deal as far as you were concerned, you were just having a laugh with some friends and b) another friend came round soon after and you quickly became engrossed in playing an X-Box game with him, hence your shock/surprise to find several armed police rocking up to your house some considerable time later.

The policeman questioning you soon realises it has all been a considerable waste of police time and resources and informs you that as his superior is not at all happy with the outcome, he will have to confiscate your air-gun, to 'at least give him something when I go back', despite you being over the age of 18 and therefore legally entitled to own it anyway.

I arrived home not long after the police had left and had no idea of what had just happened. My son told me as soon as I got in and I laughed at first, thinking he was winding me up (he sometimes tells me tall stories just to see how I react). When I realised he was actually being serious, I felt sick to the pit of my stomach at the thought of what might have happened to my son due to some busybody not being able to tell the difference between a group of young lads messing about (the fact they were all laughing and calmly walked away from our house was a bit of a clue). Fortunately, in this instance, the police quickly realised the situation was nothing like they had been led to believe and my son genuinely presented no 'threat' to them or the general public and for that, I can only commend them. The other option is truly too horrific to contemplate.
Similar thing happened in our town. Teenage boy was messing around with a very obvious looking water gun, when some moron rang the police. Next thing you know....there's a massive operation going on by armed police. It was all very exciting for me as a young teenager, who was annoyed my parents wouldn't let me anywhere near it. Police broke into the flat above the busy town centre shops, to find a rather surprised teenage boy in sweatpants. However, what if that young boy had been shot? As he too was first described as threatening passers-bys with a gun.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:26
welwynrose
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According to the initial coroner's report, the victim's occupation was 'office clerk'. Must have been some office.
now if he'd said Barristers clerk I would expect him to earn loads of dosh but an office clerk nah
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Unread Yesterday, 12:28
EvieJ
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snipped

I arrived home not long after the police had left and had no idea of what had just happened. My son told me as soon as I got in and I laughed at first, thinking he was winding me up (he sometimes tells me tall stories just to see how I react). When I realised he was actually being serious, I felt sick to the pit of my stomach at the thought of what might have happened to my son due to some busybody not being able to tell the difference between a group of young lads messing about (the fact they were all laughing and calmly walked away from our house was a bit of a clue). Fortunately, in this instance, the police quickly realised the situation was nothing like they had been led to believe and my son genuinely presented no 'threat' to them or the general public and for that, I can only commend them. The other option is truly too horrific to contemplate.
Sounds horrendous for you, I think I'd have been the same.

I think was handled appropriately though. I bet he won't do that again!
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Unread Yesterday, 12:28
SaturnV
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Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer justice done by due process - you know, trials, juries judges, that kind of stuff.
Call us all old fashioned, can't see anyone arguing against you there.
Can you tell us how much further, in your opinion, the situation should have been allowed to develop before the police took decisive action and fired?
What harm or further threat should he have been allowed to present?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:28
NorthernNinny
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Funny how the Black Live Matter people have gotten involved stating it was racially motivated. Guess it doesn't matter what a person may have done criminally or what the facts are anymore, it's all down to skin color. BLM idiots making themselves look real smart as always.
Probably trying to deflect from this office worker being in possession of a gun and having enough CCTV on his house for a small cul -d- sac.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:30
LakieLady
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Where cameras aren't worn, especially if there are no other witnesses no one may ever know what exactly DID take place at the scene that day.
That's why people are calling for them to be worn and recording devices that are available, to be used in police cars.
I don't understand why anyone has a problem with that?
Me neither. When you look at the quality of footage taken with £100 camera attached to a car dashboard or a helmet, I can't see why they don't go for it.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:34
TerraCanis
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*Although some are surprisingly obliging (every time I hear of one forgetting to pick his phone up at a burglary or other crime scene I have a laugh to myself).
Wasn't there a bank robber who wrote his "hand over the money" note on the back of a gas bill addressed to himself (or something of the sort)?
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Unread Yesterday, 12:35
Decepticons1
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If the victim's drug dealing past is all true, then he was on the cops radar for some time, whatever intel they were doing on him they knew enough that he was bad news to the point to be armed when trying to arrest him. Can't have sympathy for someone that lives that lifestyle. I had read that there was an attempt made on his life by his house, so for him to have a gun in the car is only logical for said lifestyle at that level.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:41
Ironwithin
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It was good to see one good news story in all the doom and gloom.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:43
EvieJ
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I never said previous knowledge of the person gave any sort of grounds to shoot him. That comment was in relation to assessing information received.

The justification for shooting him him comes solely from whether the force in the circumstances was reasonable.

Previous convictions do not tell the story of whether someone is dangerous, or a threat. Obviously previous dealings, or knowledge that someone is violent would be included in a risk assessment, but is not grounds to shoot someone.
In an ideal world the only thing that matters is indeed the facts at the time of shooting but why then is the past of the person involved mentioned at all and why is it considered relevant when assessing information received?

The level of intelligence received in the Duggan incident was considered very low, he was shot because he was holding a mobile phone and despite not having any serious convictions his 'suggested' lifestyle was taken into consideration. If some bloke in a pub made a remark about me having a gun I have enough confidence in the police to know that is would take more than me carrying a mobile phone to be shot dead.

The 'text book' procedure is just that, and its foolish for anyone in any position to deny that there are human beings holding those guns and thoughts, feelings and prejudices play a part in out actions.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:44
LakieLady
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Similar thing happened in our town. Teenage boy was messing around with a very obvious looking water gun, when some moron rang the police. Next thing you know....there's a massive operation going on by armed police.
That's pretty much what happened to my friend in the incident I mentioned upthread.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:46
LakieLady
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Call us all old fashioned, can't see anyone arguing against you there.
Can you tell us how much further, in your opinion, the situation should have been allowed to develop before the police took decisive action and fired?
What harm or further threat should he have been allowed to present?

Until we know more detail about the threat that WAS presented, it's impossible to comment.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:47
EvieJ
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Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer justice done by due process - you know, trials, juries judges, that kind of stuff.
You'r old fashioned

You're welcome
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Unread Yesterday, 12:51
Deep Purple
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In an ideal world the only thing that matters is indeed the facts at the time of shooting but why then is the past of the person involved mentioned at all and why is it considered relevant when assessing information received?

The level of intelligence received in the Duggan incident was considered very low, he was shot because he was holding a mobile phone and despite not having any serious convictions his 'suggested' lifestyle was taken into consideration. If some bloke in a pub made a remark about me having a gun I have enough confidence in the police to know that is would take more than me carrying a mobile phone to be shot dead.

The 'text book' procedure is just that, and its foolish for anyone in any position to deny that there are human beings holding those guns and thoughts, feelings and prejudices play a part in out actions.
Legally, that is exactly how it works. The force used has to be reasonable in the circumstances, and past history has nothing to do with the circumstances at the time.

Look at how often serious, and dangerous criminals are arrested in armed operations, when no shots are fired.
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