Its not conspiracy theorists DP its other well respected people questioning it all. I say this with great regret because I actually have a lot of respect for the police, but the actions and quality of information provided from those involved was 'dangerous'. I imagine there are good police officers all over the country cringing at the association and a feel offended on their behalf. Unfortunately there have been a number of other high profile issues as well. We need evidence that lessons have been learnt and improvements made.

It is very relevant here, someone shot dead by a police marksman
In Duggan's case it was the extraordinary jury verdict that though Duggan was unarmed he was lawfully killed. Then the subsequent action of the police involved gave rise to concern and speculation
It is to be hoped that the same circumstances do no arise here

I was there, I know exactly how much it got to you!

I didn't make any claims that were not made during the inquest.

They must have known where they found the gun on day one. They told us they found it, why not tell us where?

I get the impression that you are hoping that the same circumstances do apply here or you would not keep going on about it despite lack of concrete evidence.

All kinds of speculation has gone on in these 28 pages.

If people don't want other cases brought up, it's probably not a good idea to say things like "This would have happened", "That would have happened", "The Police don't work like that"

Rather, "This should have happened", "That should have happened", "The Police don't usually work like that"


Setting stuff up as fact, just means people want to bring in exceptions where procedures were flawed.

Christs sake, why is everyone arguing about the death of some nasty wannabe gangster thug. I have no problem with the police shooting anyone in possession of a gun beit an accident or otherwise.
I have no reason to like the police, as they have done me no favours in my life.

I said a similar thing myself quite early on in the thread. Do you think its intentional? I've heard about this bait an alert and self appointed moderator thing but....... benefit of the doubt for now.

Thing is, how would you discuss something which has very little detail without using knowledge of other similar situations and definitely NOT mentioning something which is in the OP? Answer, you probably don't.

Tbh Trunkster its not really about his death, I think most people would err on the side of justified theres just quite a lot of things to share and consider about the before and after in an event like this.

Looking at the posts on here though, what if the media and the police have got it all wrong. What if he had nothing to do with guns or drugs or money laundering and there was no gun and bullets in his car and he was just a bit of a cocky rascal who was a bit paranoid about home security who got bumped off as part of a big police sting for some reason. Could that be the case?

With the amount of planning, the police resources used in this operation and the place where it occurred, you can be absolutely sure that there was concrete evidence to justify the actions that were taken. I'm sure it will all come out in the end, but personally, I feel very reassured that they were able to intercept this group of people before they carried out their deadly attack, even if their intended targets were rival drug dealers.

That's why the IPCC investigates police shootings. Although I have to say that the scenaro you've proposed seems unlikely in the extreme.

The reports so far indicate that at least one* gun was found in the car, so for your scenario to be true it would have to have been planted. Once one starts going down that route, I'm guessing that no amount of evidence to the contrary will supersede that assumption.

*So far I've only seen one gun mentioned, so probably there was just the one. It was stated to have been in the front passenger well, so could have been in the physical possession of either the driver or the passenger, and the legal possession of both.

Sticking my oar in? Or joining in a conversation on a forum? Post a link then! Only trouble is, it doesn't exist! No one said that! You need to calm down, stop being so rude to other posters, and stop seeing racism when it doesn't exist.

They were out to whack a rival gang?

Based on the firearm recovered and it's location, it's unlikely they'd nipped out for a pizza. Suppressors make a pistol much less concealable and it's location might suggest it was there, ready to be used.

How big is the model they found? If it was in the floor well at the time of the stop how would they have seen it given he was in the seat?

Perhaps you would like to point out where I show my seething anger at their success and did so due to the colour of their skin and where I have suggested my thoughts are based on racism , I do hope you can find that and rather quickly ?

As for jealous, I run a very successful hotel company thanks and I know what real hard work is and none of it involved driving round with a gun in my car.

Wow!

So, we're not allowed to make assumptions about the police shooting someone who may not have been handling a weapon, but we can speculate that the victim was carrying said weapon, loaded with bullets and fitted with a silencer, on his way to whack some rival gangsters... and we're the fantasists?

Was it, though? Or is that where it ended up as a result of something that happened during the stop?

I would have thought that it was not unreasonable to assume that having been shot dead he failed to retain a hold on the weapon and it fell to the floor.............

Well there was a gun, silencer and ammunition so what was it wanted or needed for ?

You seem to have a problem with anyone using the word racist...judging by your responses to other posters here. You saw the word in my comment and immediately went off on one.

Nobody said that though. I've been reading back and nobody said all Asian businesses were dodgy.

While you are being so self righteous it is worth bearing in mind how quickly you accused me of racism. Asians have their own cultural practices just as other ethnic groups do. Living at the end of the rainbow clearly has a disconnect from the real world.

You forgot to include this one in your multi quotes, note the last sentence.


Nobody here has said they're all dodgy dealers.

The person I was responding to was talking about Asian businesses in general being buoyed by money laundering and drug money/nefarious means (think a wink or two was also used.) I responded to that comment, by saying that to judge all Asian businesses by saying that they money launder and drug deal is racist.
At no point did I refer to to this particular family. You then responded to my comment, obviously thinking I was talking about this particular family's business. I responded back to you thinking you were tslking sbout Asian businesses in general.
I've said in previous posts in this thread that I have little sympathy for this person in question (if all the accusations stand true.)
I also know what hard work is, and have worked my ar8e off since the age of 17. I have no sympathy for petty criminals, nor the patience for those who would disregard my hard-work due to my background because of their innate ignorance.