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M62 Police Shooting |
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#176 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
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Quote:
Or they can simply say they believed there was a danger to life, intimidate potential witnesses, lie during the investigation and garner public support via character assassination. Worked for them with Duggan didn't it?
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#177 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Can't find it now, but yesterday I found a press report of that case and there was a lot more to it. The main witness's testimony in court was so different from his police statement, eg the number of men that got out of the car varied, that the judge (rightly, imo) found that any conviction would be unsafe.
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#178 |
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He said three got out of the car. There were only two.
What people think they saw often varies from what happened, which is a difficulty, and due to how the human mind works, and not to do with lying. Of course people do lie, but tunnel vision is a normal thing at a time of stress, and things that should be obvious are often not seen. |
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#179 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Have you ever witnessed a major incident, or tried to interview witnesses?
What people think they saw often varies from what happened, which is a difficulty, and due to how the human mind works, and not to do with lying. Of course people do lie, but tunnel vision is a normal thing at a time of stress, and things that should be obvious are often not seen. Who said anyone was lying? Yassur Yaqub was found not guilty because of witness statements, lack of/unreliable evidence. If they had more evidence, there could have been a retrial. The Duggan trial: 11 officers present at scene. 1 saw him holding gun 1 saw him holding gun in sock one couldn't see his hands one said he had hand in pocket 8-9 saw NO GUN No one saw him throw a gun Lawful killing verdict: On account one person saw (The officer who shot him) Gun was found in sock 20 metres away An officer was seen on cctv (he disappeared for 11 seconds) He found gun Duggan was filmed...and found holding...his mobile phone Edit: It was found he had one previous minor conviction. For handling stolen goods. Officers at the trial admitted the intelligence they had on him was of equivalent quality of over hearing a conversation in a pub. |
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#180 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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From my limited (unfortunate) experience when shooting rabbits and game it's done at a distance when the target has no idea you're there.
And they're generally shot with a shotgun, which spreads pellets over a relatively wide area, so it's easier to hit the target. |
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#181 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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The Iranian Embassy siege was a masterclass where every terrorist bar one was shot dead without injury to the hostages.
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#182 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Well that applies in the dream world of the likes of you, who have no idea of how the law works, or the difficulties involved in firearms operations.
But very briefly, because I understand that its been done to death on here. In your 'real world' as apposed to my 'dream world' which of the facts, findings and opinions of the experts do you hope for us to ignore/forget/brush over to suit you? |
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#183 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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Our police force are held accountable for their actions.
Now an adviser to a tv company, I believe.
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#184 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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The likes of me? Do you mean people who find deaths at the hands of someone else alarming regardless of who's hands they might be? Difficulties in operations are expected and understandable, if deception and manipulation are necessary it suggests something else.
But very briefly, because I understand that its been done to death on here. In your 'real world' as apposed to my 'dream world' which of the facts, findings and opinions of the experts do you hope for us to ignore/forget/brush over to suit you?
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#185 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,630
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Excuse me, but were you at the scene? Did you actually see what happened? If not, why are you immediately jumping to the conclusions that you are?
![]() Feel free to excuse yourself
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#186 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,387
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Why is this story headline news on the Daily Mail?
Anyways he was a drug dealer, he knew the risks, you live that life there are risks associated with it, be it from the police or rival dealers/gangs I have zero sympathy for people who sell drugs and carry guns |
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#187 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Middle England
Posts: 991
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Are you suggesting all drug dealers in Huddersfield should be shot?
How would police go about that? |
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#188 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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Conclusions? We're talking about Duggan, there has been an enquiry.
Feel free to excuse yourself ![]() |
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#189 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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You are jumping to the same conclusions on this one though.
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#190 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Yes
Who said anyone was lying? Yassur Yaqub was found not guilty because of witness statements, lack of/unreliable evidence. If they had more evidence, there could have been a retrial. The Duggan trial: 11 officers present at scene. 1 saw him holding gun 1 saw him holding gun in sock one couldn't see his hands one said he had hand in pocket 8-9 saw NO GUN No one saw him throw a gun Lawful killing verdict: On account one person saw (The officer who shot him) Gun was found in sock 20 metres away An officer was seen on cctv (he disappeared for 11 seconds) He found gun Duggan was filmed...and found holding...his mobile phone Edit: It was found he had one previous minor conviction. For handling stolen goods. Officers at the trial admitted the intelligence they had on him was of equivalent quality of over hearing a conversation in a pub. |
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#191 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Am I? I think this conclusion is all yours.
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#192 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,059
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That would seem to be a cost-effective solution to the problem. Open house on all drug dealers, perhaps with a bounty payable to members of the public who participate. Highlights could be televised.
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#193 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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The likes of me? Do you mean people who find deaths at the hands of someone else alarming regardless of who's hands they might be? Difficulties in operations are expected and understandable, if deception and manipulation are necessary it suggests something else.
But very briefly, because I understand that its been done to death on here. In your 'real world' as apposed to my 'dream world' which of the facts, findings and opinions of the experts do you hope for us to ignore/forget/brush over to suit you? There are many armed criminals in this country who do not operate within any rules, and those that come face to face with them have to make massive decisions in split seconds. Sometimes a wrong decision will be made, and that applies to every armed force in the world. Our police do better on this front than many. It will never be perfect. |
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#194 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
The embassy siege wasn't a police operation though.
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#195 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,630
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No, it really isn't. Six posts in, and your agenda is clear.
![]() ![]() Like I said, the conclusion is all yours. |
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#196 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 626
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And they're generally shot with a shotgun, which spreads pellets over a relatively wide area, so it's easier to hit the target.
Now you are giving the police ideas
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#197 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 602
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No, it really isn't. Six posts in, and your agenda is clear.
Having read them, the conversation turned to the case of Mark Duggan, of which the information used was accurate and well communicated. Chill out. |
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#198 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Am I? I think this conclusion is all yours.
We dont know what happened here, but by linking it to Duggan, and claiming that was unlawful, when it wasn't, you are implying that this was unlawful. |
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#199 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Just becuase you've inferred an agenda, doesn't automatically make it true of their posts.
Having read them, the conversation turned to the case of Mark Duggan, of which the information used was accurate and well communicated. Chill out. This is an attempt to resurrect that, and imply this was unlawful too. |
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#200 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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Quote:
![]() ![]() Like I said, the conclusion is all yours. |
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