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Stacy Francis: Scientologist


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Old Today, 01:21
WhatJoeThinks
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No it doesn't sound like a lot of religions, at all. The C of E doesn't demand unfailing allegiance. It doesn't demand that cut off contact from all loved ones who don't subscribe to the same beliefs. It doesn't require you to give up all; a prescribed amount or any, in fact, of your income.

It's not about 'making me feel better'. Let's just consider the facts.
Oh, okay. I thought that there was some suggestion that I was lacking half of my natural senses, but let's get back to discussing things sensibly...

As I mentioned above, Jehovah's Witnesses do indeed expect you to excommunicate anyone who doesn't follow that faith. Islam would have you treat non-believers differently to Muslims. And there are many, many churches who pass a collection plate or similar around the congregation. Is Scientology really so different in those respects?
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Old Today, 01:22
Vicky8675309
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Why do people wear crosses or other symbols that announce their faith to the world?
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Old Today, 01:23
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In general, I'd agree. But in the case of Scientology? Not so much. Having read and watched a bit on the subject I'd have serious concerns about the mental wellbeing of anyone who would a) not bother to find out a little bit more about what it is they support or b) knowing what it is they support, continue to do so.
You would think so, wouldn't you? But yet this 'legitimate religion' are allowed to prey (not pray) on the young and vulnerable
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Old Today, 01:25
davidjones1954
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Oh, okay. I thought that there was some suggestion that I was lacking half of my natural senses, but let's get back to discussing things sensibly...

As I mentioned above, Jehovah's Witnesses do indeed expect you to excommunicate anyone who doesn't follow that faith. Islam would have you treat non-believers differently to Muslims. And there are many, many churches who pass a collection plate or similar around the congregation. Is Scientology really so different in those respects?
That's correct. Most religions survive on donations. Collection tins have always been passed around Christian Churches and even children are expected to contribute.
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Old Today, 01:28
patsylimerick
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Oh, okay. I thought that there was some suggestion that I was lacking half of my natural senses, but let's get back to discussing things sensibly...

As I mentioned above, Jehovah's Witnesses do indeed expect you to excommunicate anyone who doesn't follow that faith. Islam would have you treat non-believers differently to Muslims. And there are many, many churches who pass a collection plate or similar around the congregation. Is Scientology really so different in those respects?
I would consider Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. My s-i-l was involved many years ago and cut off contact with her family and became borderline unreachable until she was pulled from its grasp. Islam - for all the sins committed in its name - does not tell you, as a faith, that you must cut off contact with those closest to you. Scientology is very direct about its attitude towards 'Suppressive Persons'. Because SOME people interpret the Koran for nefarious purposes doesn't equate at all to direct instructions to cut SPs from your life.

Passing a collection plate - equally - is completely voluntary and in a different league to demanding most or all of your income as a prerequisite for membership.
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Old Today, 01:29
patsylimerick
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That's correct. Most religions survive on donations. Collection tins have always been passed around Christian Churches and even children are expected to contribute.
No comparison - at all - between voluntary contributions to a collection plate and demands for your entire income or much thereof.
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Old Today, 01:29
WhatJoeThinks
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All organized/formal religions are ridiculous imo but I doubt anyone cares about my opinion Opinions are like assholes....or whatever the cliche is
I'm agnostic, so I can't really comment on which religions are on the right track and which ones aren't. To me they're all a bit silly in some respects. I would have thought that the main reason that people think Scientology is a crock is the fact that it was just made up 50 years ago, based on nothing more than one man's imaginings, but that would open up all religions to exactly the same criticism. It may be 2000 years after the fact, but at its inception Christianity was largely 'made up' by Jesus, so I'm not sure you can really measure things by that rationale in any meaningful way.
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Old Today, 01:32
red_amber
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In general, I'd agree. But in the case of Scientology? Not so much. Having read and watched a bit on the subject I'd have serious concerns about the mental wellbeing of anyone who would a) not bother to find out a little bit more about what it is they support or b) knowing what it is they support, continue to do so.
I'm sure there things in all of our lives where someone looking in from the outside would question our own mental state.

Yes, I've also read about that religion. I've also stepped into a scientology centre where they've tried to indoctrinate me - it was not a nice experience. But... That still doesnt mean we should judge her.
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Old Today, 01:33
WhatJoeThinks
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You would think so, wouldn't you? But yet this 'legitimate religion' are allowed to prey (not pray) on the young and vulnerable
Again, to play Devil's advocate here (why do I bother?! ), Scientology appears to attract quite a few adults, who you could argue are in a position to make up their own minds. On the other hand I was indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism more or less from birth. It's not as insidious as it sounds though, since the church genuinely believed that they were doing me a favour.
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Old Today, 01:34
patsylimerick
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I'm agnostic, so I can't really comment on which religions are on the right track and which ones aren't. To me they're all a bit silly in some respects. I would have thought that the main reason that people think Scientology is a crock is the fact that it was just made up 50 years ago, based on nothing more than one man's imaginings, but that would open up all religions to exactly the same criticism. It may be 2000 years after the fact, but at its inception Christianity was largely 'made up' by Jesus, so I'm not sure you can really measure things by that rationale in any meaningful way.
Christianity wasn't 'made up' by Jesus at all. It was a following and series of moral directives that emerged in the decades and centuries after a man who some considered to be a Messiah lived.

Scientology, on the other hand, happened when L Ron Hubbard moved from writing niche popular sci-fi and figured he could make a few bob by turning the mumbo jumbo behind those sci-fi pamplets into a system, Dianetics. He then began to believe that this mash-up on his head and on his typewriter might be real or might be believed to be real and decided to package it as a religion. He was clever enough, mind, to keep the people rocket-shipping into volcanoes until his devotees reach Level 8 and are too tied in and/or embarrassed, for the most part, to back out. He did, in fact, at one stage try to admit himself for psychiatric treatment. Even he realised how mad the whole thing was.
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Old Today, 01:35
patsylimerick
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I'm sure there things in all of our lives where someone looking in from the outside would question our own mental state.

Yes, I've also read about that religion. I've also stepped into a scientology centre where they've tried to indoctrinate me - it was not a nice experience. But... That still doesnt mean we should judge her.
Well, I'm going to judge her a little bit. I'd like to know, however, how she got involved. If, for example, she was raised in the 'Church' I'd have a little bit more sympathy.
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Old Today, 01:37
red_amber
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I agree amber. You have to be respectful of others beliefs.

Who are we to judge what religion one should follow?

Can you imagine if someone created a thread on here saying has Ray J announced he's a Muslim?
Yeah. Some people on here are just getting on my nerves making definite claims that because she's a scientologist she's a homophobic.
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Old Today, 01:40
davidjones1954
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No comparison - at all - between voluntary contributions to a collection plate and demands for your entire income or much thereof.
Demands for your entire income?

People are entitled to spend their money however they wish. Scientology survives mostly through donations, book sales and income received through their various courses which people choose to attend.

It is a recognised religion which has tax free status like every other recognised religion.
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Old Today, 01:41
patsylimerick
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Yeah. Some people on here are just getting on my nerves making definite claims that because she's a scientologist she's a homophobic.
I haven't seen that. But Scientology officially considers homosexuality an illness. So if you're happy to call yourself a member of an organisation that is officially and literally homophobic in its very explicit teachings, what does that say about your attitude towards gay people?
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Old Today, 01:42
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Yeah. Some people on here are just getting on my nerves making definite claims that because she's a scientologist she's a homophobic.
Uh? Who has said that on this thread? It doesn't help to make stuff up
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Old Today, 01:45
davidjones1954
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I haven't seen that. But Scientology officially considers homosexuality an illness. So if you're happy to call yourself a member of an organisation that is officially and literally homophobic in its very explicit teachings, what does that say about your attitude towards gay people?
Have you read the bible or the quran?

Many religions have controversial views. That doesn't mean their followers should be judged. We are all entitled to our own beliefs and views on life.
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Old Today, 01:46
Panda Eyes
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Christianity wasn't 'made up' by Jesus at all. It was a following and series of moral directives that emerged in the decades and centuries after a man who some considered to be a Messiah lived.

Scientology, on the other hand, happened when L Ron Hubbard moved from writing niche popular sci-fi and figured he could make a few bob by turning the mumbo jumbo behind those sci-fi pamplets into a system, Dianetics. He then began to believe that this mash-up on his head and on his typewriter might be real or might be believed to be real and decided to package it as a religion. He was clever enough, mind, to keep the people rocket-shipping into volcanoes until his devotees reach Level 8 and are too tied in and/or embarrassed, for the most part, to back out. He did, in fact, at one stage try to admit himself for psychiatric treatment. Even he realised how mad the whole thing was.

LOL! There's a story that even Charles Manson backed away from it saying it was loony tunes
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Old Today, 01:47
patsylimerick
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Demands for your entire income?

People are entitled to spend their money however they wish. Scientology survives mostly through donations, book sales and income received through their various courses which people choose to attend.

It is a recognised religion which has tax free status like every other recognised religion.
Don't they tell you that you are in imminent danger if you don't have your engrams cleared? And that can only be done by auditing? And the auditing sessions cost from $1,000 upwards?
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Old Today, 01:49
WhatJoeThinks
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Christianity wasn't 'made up' by Jesus at all. It was a following and series of moral directives that emerged in the decades and centuries after a man who some considered to be a Messiah lived.

Scientology, on the other hand, happened when L Ron Hubbard moved from writing niche popular sci-fi and figured he could make a few bob by turning the mumbo jumbo behind those sci-fi pamplets into a system, Dianetics. He then began to believe that this mash-up on his head and on his typewriter might be real or might be believed to be real and decided to package it as a religion. He was clever enough, mind, to keep the people rocket-shipping into volcanoes until his devotees reach Level 8 and are too tied in and/or embarrassed, for the most part, to back out. He did, in fact, at one stage try to admit himself for psychiatric treatment. Even he realised how mad the whole thing was.
We all know how Christianity began. "Christianity was largely 'made up' by Jesus" was just a shorthand description, rather than having to post a 10,000-word thesis just to make a simple point, which is that all religions were made up at some point. Obviously that is indistinguishable from divine revelation, if such things even exist. And if you accept the notion of revelation then you have to accept that, perhaps, L. Ron Hubbard was divinely inspired.
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Old Today, 01:49
patsylimerick
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Have you read the bible or the quran?

Many religions have controversial views. That doesn't mean their followers should be judged. We are all entitled to our own beliefs and views on life.
Listen, anyone can believe whatever they want to believe. But I'm free to make my own assumptions based on what bat-crazy bolloxology they subscribe to.
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Old Today, 01:50
red_amber
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Uh? Who has said that on this thread? It doesn't help to make stuff up
I didn't say this thread. Check out the the 'Gay Boy' thread.
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Old Today, 01:50
davidjones1954
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Don't they tell you that you are in imminent danger if you don't have your engrams cleared? And that can only be done by auditing? And the auditing sessions cost from $1,000 upwards?
The auditing starts from $1000?

I've heard it all now. I suggest you do your own research instead of listening to scaremongering.
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Old Today, 01:52
davidjones1954
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Listen, anyone can believe whatever they want to believe. But I'm free to make my own assumptions based on what bat-crazy bolloxology they subscribe to.
You are coming across as bigoted and sectarian.

Would it be acceptable if I referred to the Catholic church using an offensive term?
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Old Today, 01:52
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Listen, anyone can believe whatever they want to believe. But I'm free to make my own assumptions based on what bat-crazy bolloxology they subscribe to.
Lol :
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Old Today, 01:52
patsylimerick
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We all know how Christianity began. "Christianity was largely 'made up' by Jesus" was just a shorthand description, rather than having to post a 10,000-word thesis just to make a simple point, which is that all religions were made up at some point. Obviously that is indistinguishable from divine revelation, if such things even exist. And if you accept the notion of revelation then you have to accept that, perhaps, L. Ron Hubbard was divinely inspired.
I don't accept the notion of revelation at all. But I find a series of metaphorical tales with basic moralistic values more, shall we say, benevolent, than threatening, semi-literate ramblings that are quantifiably based on a young man's pathetic attempts at science-fiction lite.
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