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Stacy Francis: Scientologist


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Old Today, 01:54
red_amber
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Listen, anyone can believe whatever they want to believe. But I'm free to make my own assumptions based on what bat-crazy bolloxology they subscribe to.
This is true, you can make your own assumptions based on whatever, but that does lead to narrow-mindedness.
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Old Today, 01:55
patsylimerick
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You are coming across as bigoted and sectarian.

Would it be acceptable if I referred to the Catholic church using an offensive term?
Fire away. I've a few choice words for it myself. I haven't considered myself a Catholic since I hit puberty. Mind, it never demanded my income, forced me to distance myself from members of my family who were 'suppressive' (i.e. healthily cynical) or asked me to bow down to a failed science fiction writer.
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Old Today, 01:55
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You are coming across as bigoted and sectarian.

Would it be acceptable if I referred to the Catholic church using an offensive term?
I'm sure most people can distinguish what religion / cult sounds reasonably safe or batshit nuts and dangerous
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Old Today, 01:56
patsylimerick
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I'm sure most people can distinguish what religion / cult sounds reasonably safe or batshit nuts and dangerous
Interesting choice of word 'sectarian', no?
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Old Today, 02:00
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I don't accept the notion of revelation at all. But I find a series of metaphorical tales with basic moralistic values more, shall we say, benevolent, than threatening, semi-literate ramblings that are quantifiably based on a young man's pathetic attempts at science-fiction lite.
Fair enough. I like to judge things on merit too. I don't have any problem with most religions and, having once belonged to one of the Abrahamic religions, I can even see some of the positives. I don't have any experience of Scientology though, so I don't have a strong opinion either way. They don't impact my life in any way. Let them get on with it, I say. And if someone wants to pay through the nose to have his Thetans manipulated or whatever then so be it. I can think of more nefarious things that people spend/waste money on.
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Old Today, 02:02
patsylimerick
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Fair enough. I like to judge things on merit too. I don't have any problem with most religions and, having once belonged to one of the Abrahamic religions, I can see some of the positives. I don't have any experience of Scientology though, so I don't have a strong opinion either way. They don't impact my life in any way. Let them get on with it, I say. And if someone wants to pay through the nose to have his Thetans manipulated or whatever then so be it. I can think of more nefarious things that people spend/waste money on.
Agreed. I've no particular issue with the people spending the money. The people profiting from it raise my hackles though. $1.5bn in assets. That's a lot of college funds and healthcare bills in the pockets of the least deserving, the way I see it.
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Old Today, 02:03
patsylimerick
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This is true, you can make your own assumptions based on whatever, but that does lead to narrow-mindedness.
No, no, no. My open-mindedness led me to do some research. THEN I decided it was bat-shit crazy bolloxology.
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Old Today, 02:07
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Interesting choice of word 'sectarian', no?
Yep absolutely. I've lived a lifetime of sectarian hatred where I lived. I've witnessed horrific violence from both sides of the Catholic vs Protestant hatred.
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Old Today, 02:07
WhatJoeThinks
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Agreed. I've no particular issue with the people spending the money. The people profiting from it raise my hackles though. $1.5bn in assets. That's a lot of college funds and healthcare bills in the pockets of the least deserving, the way I see it.
That's peanuts compared to what the Vatican hoards. And if it's tax avoidance that grinds your gears I suggest you point the finger at big businesses, who collectively hold back trillions that could be used for the benefit of society, rather than a few top dogs.
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Old Today, 02:10
patsylimerick
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That's peanuts compared to what the Vatican hoards. And if it's tax avoidance that grinds your gears I suggest you point the finger at big businesses, who collectively hold back trillions that could be used for the benefit of society, rather than a few top dogs.
I have and have had lots to say about both. But this thread is about Scientology.

Two wrongs and all that.....
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Old Today, 02:12
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Fair enough. I like to judge things on merit too. I don't have any problem with most religions and, having once belonged to one of the Abrahamic religions, I can even see some of the positives. I don't have any experience of Scientology though, so I don't have a strong opinion either way. They don't impact my life in any way. Let them get on with it, I say. And if someone wants to pay through the nose to have his Thetans manipulated or whatever then so be it. I can think of more nefarious things that people spend/waste money on.
This thread is about the unsavoury acts of this 'religion'. Should they be let off the hook because they are 'legitimate'?
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Old Today, 02:14
red_amber
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No, no, no. My open-mindedness led me to do some research. THEN I decided it was bat-shit crazy bolloxology.
OK... Scientology may not be one of the "better" religions, but from what I've seen of Stacy so far, I like. I refuse to write her off purely based on who/how she chooses to worship - it's not relevant.

I'm not questioning your dislike for scientology, I'm just questioning the harsh judgment you have of the followers of said religion.
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Old Today, 02:15
patsylimerick
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OK... Scientology may not be one of the "better" religions, but from what I've seen of Stacy so far, I like. I refuse to write her off purely based on who/how she chooses to worship - it's not relevant.

I'm not questioning your dislike for scientology, I'm just questioning the harsh judgment you have of the followers of said religion.
I've already said upthread that I'd like to know more about how she became involved. I quite like her too; but I'm not going to ignore the fact that she subscribes to this nonsense.
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Old Today, 02:21
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The auditing starts from $1000?

I've heard it all now. I suggest you do your own research instead of listening to scaremongering.
I've done my own research and they are a cult, they not only charge "followers" for auditing (currently $800 an hour) they enslave children (Sea Org) and charge people who leave 1000's. That's if they escape. They don't just let people leave. If one does escape they hound them for decades.

I know all I need to know from personal experience. And no I won't share my personal experience with them on an open forum.
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Old Today, 02:26
WhatJoeThinks
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This thread is about the unsavoury acts of this 'religion'. Should they be let off the hook because they are 'legitimate'?
I'm not sure what you're asking me, or what you mean by "let off the hook".
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Old Today, 02:29
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I don't watch them, nor will I ever spend a penny on them.

Correct it was made up (invented...whatever one would like to call it) by Paul.

I've done my own research and they are a cult, they not only charge "followers" for auditing (currently $800 an hour) they enslave children (Sea Org) and charge people who leave 1000's. That's if they escape. They don't just let people leave. If one does escape they hound them for decades.

I know all I need to know from personal experience. And no I won't share my personal experience with them on an open forum.
Kudos Vesna. Well done. Can't imagine your nightmare.
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Old Today, 02:32
WhatJoeThinks
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I have and have had lots to say about both. But this thread is about Scientology.

Two wrongs and all that.....
Sorry to digress. We were talking about the difference between a cult and a religion. So given that the Vatican hoards far more than the Scientologists do, but Christianity isn't considered a cult, then surely hoarding cash is notwithstanding with regards to defining a cult?
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Old Today, 02:33
Vesna
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Kudos Vesna. Well done. Can't imagine your nightmare.
Don't worry about me. They didn't get me, if anything I got them. They did get someone close to me, very very close to me. I know all about them, all I need to know.

I suggest everyone watch Leah Remini's documentary. It is all true and then some.
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Old Today, 02:37
Vesna
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Sorry to digress. We were talking about the difference between a cult and a religion. So given that the Vatican hoards far more than the Scientologists do, but Christianity isn't a cult, then surely hoarding cash is notwithstanding with regards to defining a cult?
That's simply not true. And when was the last time anyone was forced to give money to the Church, any church? They suggest followers donate 10% of their salary, they don't demand it. And there is proof that at least some of their massive fortune does actually go to charitable causes.

I went to a Protestant church for years and was never ever forced to pay or give anything. When I stopped going I didn't get followed, I wasn't banished, I can go again anytime I feel like going.
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Old Today, 02:38
patsylimerick
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Sorry to digress. We were talking about the difference between a cult and a religion. So given that the Vatican hoards far more than the Scientologists do, but Christianity isn't considered a cult, then surely hoarding cash is notwithstanding with regards to defining a cult?
Hoarding cash wasn't one of the criteria I mentioned, now was it? The Vatican's wealth has built up over centuries. Many of it down to the greedy money-grubbing 'vow of chastity' nonsense (slices heirs out of the picture). I clearly gave the criteria up thread.

Again, we're talking about Scientology.
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Old Today, 02:39
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I'm not sure what you're asking me, or what you mean by "let off the hook".
Sorry Joe. What I mean is that because they are bona fide, they get away with all sorts of unsavoury acts that they were accused of before. Only now........ Who the hell is paying attention and looking into them?

This cult has gotten away with so much. What a fckd up society we have to encourage anyone with connections to this effed up cult.
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Old Today, 02:41
WhatJoeThinks
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That's simply not true. And when was the last time anyone was forced to give money to the Church, any church? They suggest followers donate 10% of their salary, they don't demand it. And there is proof that at least some of their massive fortune does actually go to charitable causes.

I went to a Protestant church for years and was never ever forced to pay or give anything. When I stopped going I didn't get followed, I wasn't banished, I can go again anytime I feel like going.
What isn't true?
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Old Today, 02:44
WhatJoeThinks
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Hoarding cash wasn't one of the criteria I mentioned, now was it? The Vatican's wealth has built up over centuries. Many of it down to the greedy money-grubbing 'vow of chastity' nonsense (slices heirs out of the picture). I clearly gave the criteria up thread.

Again, we're talking about Scientology.
Okay. But we are having a conversation about the difference between a religion and a cult, are we not? So when you said, "The people profiting from it raise my hackles though. $1.5bn in assets. That's a lot of college funds and healthcare bills in the pockets of the least deserving, the way I see it." I drew the obvious parallel with the Catholic church.
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Old Today, 02:46
patsylimerick
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Okay. But we are having a conversation about the difference between a religion and a cult, are we not? So when you said, "The people profiting from it raise my hackles though. $1.5bn in assets. That's a lot of college funds and healthcare bills in the pockets of the least deserving, the way I see it." I drew the obvious parallel with the Catholic church.
I've never heard of a family bankrupted by the Catholic Church. Have you? I've heard of many bankrupted by Scientology.
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Old Today, 02:50
WhatJoeThinks
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Sorry Joe. What I mean is that because they are bona fide, they get away with all sorts of unsavoury acts that they were accused of before. Only now........ Who the hell is paying attention and looking into them?

This cult has gotten away with so much. What a fckd up society we have to encourage anyone with connections to this effed up cult.
Don't worry, there a still plenty of organisations in the US that scrutinize religions and charities that appear to be using their legal status for nefarious purposes. The main problem is trying to find a fair way to separate the wheat from the chaff, and since that's an intractable problem they seem to just grant tax exemptions to all and sundry, rather than taxing everyone including all religions and all charities.

You could set up a charity for the protection of earthworms if you wanted to, and it would be very difficult for the authorities to prove that you're just creating a tax haven, or whether you genuinely care about earthworms.
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