We agree on something

I was pleased when I saw he was doing it because based on his work with the Westboro Baptist Church I knew it wouldn't simply be Scientology = evil.

It's very good and I'm amazed at how much ground it has managed to cover in such a short time.

****ing lizards.

I don't have any issue with your sarcasm. As I said, it simply highlighted the fact that you believe that a religion ought to be noble. And I have no wish to stop you from denigrating them if you so wish. All I am saying is that the word 'cult' is nothing more than a pejorative term with an ad hoc definition that's usually tailored to whatever group people want to call a cult. And like you say, it just derails discussion about the things that do actually matter.

Put it this way, if it were easy or even possible to truly distinguish a religion from a cult (or a charity from a tax haven for that matter) you can be certain that the US government would have applied it a long time ago. The fact is that if enough people collectively claim to worship cats, for example, it's impossible to say for certain that they're all lying, so they just have to let them get on with it because it isn't fair to discriminate. Not a perfect situation, I'll grant you, but that's the world we live in.

Well that's all the recommendation that I need! I've already heard good things about it but after following this thread and remarking on your knowledge of said matters I am defo seeking this out. Thank you.

Hm. I don't think they're spending their "fortune." I think they're spending the millions in donations they get each year.

I just saw a show (a few years old) about child abuse by a priest in one Canadian parish. The victims brought suit against the church, with millions in settlement. The Vatican told the local parish they were on their own in paying it. So they had to try to raise the funds from the parishioners, against whom the offense had been committed. As so many of these practically impoverished people said, the Vatican would only have to sell one artifact and have boatloads to pay off the results of their practices of sheltering pedophiles. But claimed it wasn't their responsibility.

If you can find a way to watch ABC then there's going to be some disturbing stuff on it tonight about the way Scientology uses children as auditors and has them quiz middle-aged people about their sexual habits.

http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/06/sci...eir-sex-lives/

Okay, well thanks for the warning.

Are you referring to ABC's 20/20 show? Is it on tonight?

As if being a cult would mean they're all lying.

And no, I don't think we can be "certain that the US government would have applied it a long time ago".


Not so. But I hope no one falls into the trap of diverting the discussion into how best to define "cult".


That's much too broad to work as a definition of "religion".

Really? Racist beliefs, for example?

Because no, we don't actually have to be respectful of beliefs.

Re Adam bb13:


Thanks. I must have been aware of your tread at the time, because I posted in it, but I somehow managed to forget all about it.

Me too! And I'm glad to see my views haven't changed. If anything, they've become more strident. Had the flu recently and went through a binge of cult documentaries on Netflix/Youtube. Extraordinary stuff!

edited to add: by cult documentaries I don't mean documentaries that have a cult following; I mean documentaries about cults

I think my views on such things have become more strident too, But though having a Scientologist HM is my "last straw" reason for not watching this CBB, it wouldn't have been enough on its own if there were enough other things about the series that I liked.

I just watched the first episode of the Leah Remini series. It's very upsetting. Might just watch one episode every couple of weeks. Don't think I can binge watch.

Scientology is a crock of shit. And yes, it is a cult. Any 'religious organisation' that encourages the shunning of family members who leave or who resort to harassment and bullying of those who speak out against it are a cult.

There was no proof that he was. They're very happy to have non-members fronting their projects to give them an air of respectability. Everyone else on the tour was a member though, including that jazz band of Scientologists who did BGT a few years ago, They played at the launch party.

So Adam knew who he was working with and had no qualms about their dodgy ideology. He either hadn't done his research or didn't care that those benign, seemingly helpful leaflets are the first step on a slippery slope towards Scientology's highly dangerous rehab centres. If the schools knew the background of who they were letting in to speak to their pupils they certainly weren't bothered either. They could tick the box about how they've provided drug prevention lessons, just turning a blind eye to who's delivering them and their hidden agendas.


Some curious timing there. The tour was spring 2013 and there's no evidence Adam repeated the experience unless you know better. He's not active on Twitter these days so we can't find out from there whether he's still doing any drug prevention work. I'd have thought he'd be singing it from the rooftops if he was. Yet the press release and video are dated late 2015 so they've held on to 2.5 year old material and issued it as though it was current.

I remember during the 2013 thread it was mentioned that Scientology kept their distance from The Truth About Drugs so people couldn't easily work out its roots. Yet by late 2015 they're happily taking the credit for it. So now Adam's openly associated with Scientology, whether or not he's a member and whether he likes it or not. I wonder about the parents of all those children pictured in the video. Did they have to sign waivers and was it made totally clear to them that their childrens' faces would be used in Scientology propaganda?

Thanks OP for starting this thread.
I've been down a rabbit hole the past couple days and watched Going Clear, 20/20 and all of Leah Remini's series about the aftermath of Scientology. All excellent viewing and I hope she (Leah) brings down Scientology
I still can't stand Stacy, even if she wasn't a Scientologist. Her being a Scientologist is just another reason for me to not like her. It's not the beliefs that I care about but the methods they (Scientology) use....
I'm off to finish yesterdays episode of CBB.

I'm not surprised she does seem to have excellent self control and good communication both of which are the positives of the crazy crap in both these organisations.

They haven't had a lot of choice in the matter since there was a concerted effort to expose all the front groups Scientology uses.

I don't know about waivers but an awful lot of people are still hesitant to take on the cult and just leave well alone.

Bwahahahaaaa!!

I'm declaring that my most favouritest word of the series

I would recommend visiting Scientology.org where you will find a more balanced view. That way you will be able to form your own opinion rather than trusting documentary makers who will use second hand information without a scrap of evidence to back it up. They are only interested in making a documentary which will be controversial and get people talking, rather than what the truth is.

I have watched David Miscavige's (sp?) interview with Ted Kopel and have watched and heard their spokesperson (lawyer) on both frontline and 20/20. I heard Scientology's side and am disgusted with they way they attack critics. It is ironic that Miscavige uses "communication" as an example of a tool/skill Scientology helps with when he can't even answer the questions Ted asks him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exzmE3vW_Tw

Yeah right. Are you from the Sea Org?
Meanwhile I would love it if James Jordan, someone I really dislike, set the cat amongst the pigeons by burbling something about "bat shit Scientologists" or similar.