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Brexit assault on British institutions - first the judges, now the civil service


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Old 04-01-2017, 08:03
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We have Farage demanding a large number of sackings in the Foreign Office, with committed Brexiteers brought in to replace them.

We have numerous Brexiteers demanding the new EU ambassador is a committed Brexiteer.

This is a complete undermining of the neutrality of the civil service. In the UK we do not appoint civil servants based on their political ideologies. Its very similar to the recent assault on the neutrality of the judicial system by the same people. We have a full blooded campaign now to try and shape the apparatus of the state under one political ideology - with lots of Brexit voters cheering this from the sidelines.

I wonder what will be the next target - the BBC should be on high alert.

It seems that taking back control actually means handing over all forms of power to the ideology of Brexit.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:29
Forza Ferrari
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Being rational is a hindrance to implementing brexit because it is such a bad idea. So they are getting towards the point the only people who will do it are extremists.

I don't think it will be much longer until May takes a bout of conscience and resigns.

Perhapes this is a sequence of events which will be put in motion when she doesn't trigger A50 in March.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:58
Doctor_Wibble
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Is this due to that guy they showed on the news earlier, the most biased pro-bremain person I have seen in a long time, who was until recently a supposedly completely neutral effective part of the civil (or diplomatic, are they separate?) service and completely happy with dealing with brexit matters because calling it 'muddle-headed' is such a neutral thing to say?

Or is the EU ambassador not meant to be neutral in such things? I thought he was supposed to represent the UK government?

So how come he waited six months before spitting out his dummy? Was there a golden pension time-served threshold he had to reach? Or is the book deal now signed or the after-dinner circuit due to start up after the holidays?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:08
Peter_Gibbins
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Being rational is a hindrance to implementing brexit because it is such a bad idea. So they are getting towards the point the only people who will do it are extremists.

I don't think it will be much longer until May takes a bout of conscience and resigns.

Perhapes this is a sequence of events which will be put in motion when she doesn't trigger A50 in March.
why exactly is it a bad idea? how is separating the UK from a political union a "bad idea" when it allows the UK government to cater for UK national interests using UK taxpayers money?
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:31
pedrok
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Is this due to that guy they showed on the news earlier, the most biased pro-bremain person I have seen in a long time, who was until recently a supposedly completely neutral effective part of the civil (or diplomatic, are they separate?) service and completely happy with dealing with brexit matters because calling it 'muddle-headed' is such a neutral thing to say?

Or is the EU ambassador not meant to be neutral in such things? I thought he was supposed to represent the UK government?

So how come he waited six months before spitting out his dummy? Was there a golden pension time-served threshold he had to reach? Or is the book deal now signed or the after-dinner circuit due to start up after the holidays?
There is the Home civil service and the Diplomatic service. Both are impartial.

And completely agree with the OP. This drip...drip...drop of undermining the likes of the Judicial system and Civil Service, is both concerning and dangerous.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:32
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Is this due to that guy they showed on the news earlier, the most biased pro-bremain person I have seen in a long time, who was until recently a supposedly completely neutral effective part of the civil (or diplomatic, are they separate?) service and completely happy with dealing with brexit matters because calling it 'muddle-headed' is such a neutral thing to say?

Or is the EU ambassador not meant to be neutral in such things? I thought he was supposed to represent the UK government?

So how come he waited six months before spitting out his dummy? Was there a golden pension time-served threshold he had to reach? Or is the book deal now signed or the after-dinner circuit due to start up after the holidays?
This kind of proves my point. You have launched a complete character assignation on him with no evidence behind your claims.

Those cheering the current attempted politicising of the civil service and judiciary by Brexiteers should remember that once they are politicised, there is nothing stopping a future left wing or even God forbid an adamant Remainer PM, installing their own choice judges and civil servants in future. It's a very slippery slope.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:34
jjwales
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Is this due to that guy they showed on the news earlier, the most biased pro-bremain person I have seen in a long time, who was until recently a supposedly completely neutral effective part of the civil (or diplomatic, are they separate?) service and completely happy with dealing with brexit matters because calling it 'muddle-headed' is such a neutral thing to say?
As ambassador, he was presumably neutral. Now that he's resigned, he doesn't have to be.

So how come he waited six months before spitting out his dummy?
Eh? He hasn't resigned because of the Leave vote in June. It's apparently because of his frustration with a government that won't accept his advice. Nick Clegg has suggested that's he's been “hounded out by hostile Brexiteers in government”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7507561.html
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:43
Dotheboyshall
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The government have already made it easier to appoint their cronies to 'independent' bodies
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:43
trevgo
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It's a very worrying trend indeed. Just wait until the Supreme Court rules.

All this blather about democracy and taking back control - it's nothing of the sort. They are the mantras of the tunnel vision extremists who want everything their way.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:07
GreatGodPan
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As ambassador, he was presumably neutral. Now that he's resigned, he doesn't have to be.


Eh? He hasn't resigned because of the Leave vote in June. It's apparently because of his frustration with a government that won't accept his advice. Nick Clegg has suggested that's he's been “hounded out by hostile Brexiteers in government”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7507561.html
Senior civil servants should be used to governments not taking their advice.

It comes with the job.

It is the job of civil servants to carry out the wishes of their political masters and make them work, no matter how wrong they think they may be. They can flag up why they think certain measures are wrong, but the final call comes from the government.

I know, I was a junior civil servant in the Thatcher years - you can imagine how many decisions made at that time I felt were wrong!
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:07
Doctor_Wibble
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There is the Home civil service and the Diplomatic service. Both are impartial.
Ta, I should have looked that up

This kind of proves my point. You have launched a complete character assignation on him with no evidence behind your claims.
Assignation As for evidence just read/watch what he said, I don't need to say anything at all, his own words tell it all.

Those cheering the current attempted politicising of the civil service and judiciary by Brexiteers should remember that once they are politicised,
They are already heavily politicised, the whole of flipping whitehall was anti-brexit! Or if that's too specific, extremely pro-status-quo which by default is pro-remain.

edit : removed ref to date, it's late *this* year that seems to be his end date
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:09
Forza Ferrari
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why exactly is it a bad idea? how is separating the UK from a political union a "bad idea" when it allows the UK government to cater for UK national interests using UK taxpayers money?
Going great isn't it.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:28
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Hmm, me thinks the OP doth protest too much bearing in mind the judges are all still judges and the EU ambassador resigned on his own volition.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:53
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Hmm, me thinks the OP doth protest too much bearing in mind the judges are all still judges and the EU ambassador resigned on his own volition.
True.
And the Brexit tactic of smearing the person rather than addressing the argument discredits those those do it more than their targets.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:58
Doctor_Wibble
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True.
And the Brexit tactic of smearing the person rather than addressing the argument discredits those those do it more than their targets.
On the other hand, if Mr Ambassador was in some way related to advising on the 'concessions' then he was instrumental in failing to get a convincing deal and can easily be a target for some of the blame as to why we are now facing brexit.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:03
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True.
And the Brexit tactic of smearing the person rather than addressing the argument discredits those those do it more than their targets.
And the tactic isn't confined to one side or the other.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:19
trunkster
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We have Farage demanding a large number of sackings in the Foreign Office, with committed Brexiteers brought in to replace them.

We have numerous Brexiteers demanding the new EU ambassador is a committed Brexiteer.

This is a complete undermining of the neutrality of the civil service. In the UK we do not appoint civil servants based on their political ideologies. Its very similar to the recent assault on the neutrality of the judicial system by the same people. We have a full blooded campaign now to try and shape the apparatus of the state under one political ideology - with lots of Brexit voters cheering this from the sidelines.

I wonder what will be the next target - the BBC should be on high alert.

It seems that taking back control actually means handing over all forms of power to the ideology of Brexit.
Another day another irrational remoan flounce, Zzzzzzz
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:21
moox
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I wonder what will be the next target - the BBC should be on high alert.

It seems that taking back control actually means handing over all forms of power to the ideology of Brexit.
I didn't take the whole "this country has had enough of experts" from Gove too seriously at the time.

But now it's clear that he was actually right.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:21
hatpeg
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On the other hand, if Mr Ambassador was in some way related to advising on the 'concessions' then he was instrumental in failing to get a convincing deal and can easily be a target for some of the blame as to why we are now facing brexit.
He had a cosy little number, feet under the table with the Eurocrats, and wanted to keep the status quo.
As a Civil Servant he should be neutral, and seen but not heard.
By releasing his "opinions" he stepped outside of his neutral role, showed he can't be trusted, and needed to be replaced.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:23
moox
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Hmm, me thinks the OP doth protest too much bearing in mind the judges are all still judges and the EU ambassador resigned on his own volition.
They still got undeserved criticism for doing their jobs. I'm sure that if supreme court judges could be fired for disagreeing with the government, then we'd have seen some of them go too. But (thankfully) at least they have job security.

If you think that the ambassador truly resigned on his own initiative, you're very naive. When you resign and basically say "the politicians are stubborn idiots" you can be sure that it's a case "go before we push you out"
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:30
jjwales
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He had a cosy little number, feet under the table with the Eurocrats, and wanted to keep the status quo.
As a Civil Servant he should be neutral, and seen but not heard.
By releasing his "opinions" he stepped outside of his neutral role, showed he can't be trusted, and needed to be replaced.
When wasn't he neutral as a civil servant?
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:33
jmclaugh
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They still got undeserved criticism for doing their jobs. I'm sure that if supreme court judges could be fired for disagreeing with the government, then we'd have seen some of them go too. But (thankfully) at least they have job security.
Being able to criticise the establishment is part and parcel of a democracy, whether you think it is deserving or not is a matter of opinion.

If you think that the ambassador truly resigned on his own initiative, you're very naive. When you resign and basically say "the politicians are stubborn idiots" you can be sure that it's a case "go before we push you out"
He is at liberty to say he jumped before he was pushed but he hasn't so I assume he didn't and he doesn't appear to be a shrinking violet.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:36
trunkster
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Being able to criticise the establishment is part and parcel of a democracy whether you think it is deserving or not is a matter of opinion.



He is at liberty to say he jumped before he was pushed but he hasn't so I assume he didn't and he doesn't appear to be a shrinking violet.
No no no, he was 'forced out' remoaners have a sixth sense for this sort of thing
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:46
d'@ve
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Another day another irrational remoan flounce, Zzzzzzz
It's all starting to fall apart. Don't say you weren't warned.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:47
moox
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Being able to criticise the establishment is part and parcel of a democracy, whether you think it is deserving or not is a matter of opinion.
Please explain how calling judges "traitors" or how it is valid to attack their sexual preferences, hobbies and interests?

Sure, criticise the judgment, explain why you think they got it wrong - though it's the supreme court, so it stands. But it's neither here nor there that a judge is "openly gay" or into fencing. Nor are they "traitors" because they made a judgment on how the law is to be interpreted, not a judgment based on what Brexiters want.

He is at liberty to say he jumped before he was pushed but he hasn't so I assume he didn't and he doesn't appear to be a shrinking violet.
Yeah... you're naive. You don't burn bridges in a statement that you knew was going to be pulled apart by the media.
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