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NHS turning into 'national hangover service', health chief warns


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Old 04-01-2017, 16:22
VicnBob
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Seperate "drunk tank" facilities staffed by medics, where ambulances and police can quickly drop drunks off to sober up, which then frees them up to attend real emergencies.

Additional ideas could be that they can't be "released" from the drunk tank without paying a fee first.
I understand they already do have something very similar to what you have suggested in a lot of city centres.
There is also a group of volunteers who assist drunks who may have passed out, threatening suicide etc etc.
Its those that ring for an ambulance that stretches the service, and the demands are incredible at the end of 'race days', close to where I live.
There are still individuals out there that think the ambulance service is similar to a taxi,
and they think the NHS is free therefore they don't value it.
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Old 04-01-2017, 16:39
wench
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What would you suggest doing with people who refuse to pay? What about people who can't pay?

At what point do you become drunk and have to pay as well?
The same with any non payment of fines I suppose, debt recovery etc

Again, if you can afford to get blotto on alcohol then you can pay a fine. If you can't pay then you'd think twice before getting drunk in public perhaps?
I think the idea is to make people think twice about getting so wasted.

If you are being collected by the police or an ambulance then its those that we are talking about, rather than being dropped off at A&E and clogging up their services, they can dry out at a drunk tank instead.
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Old 04-01-2017, 16:40
wench
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I understand they already do have something very similar to what you have suggested in a lot of city centres.
There is also a group of volunteers who assist drunks who may have passed out, threatening suicide etc etc.
Its those that ring for an ambulance that stretches the service, and the demands are incredible at the end of 'race days', close to where I live.
There are still individuals out there that think the ambulance service is similar to a taxi,
and they think the NHS is free therefore they don't value it.
This needs to be rolled out across the country and not just city centres, perhaps one attached to every A&E unit.
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Old 04-01-2017, 16:42
walterwhite
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The same with any non payment of fines I suppose, debt recovery etc

Again, if you can afford to get blotto on alcohol then you can pay a fine. If you can't pay then you'd think twice before getting drunk in public perhaps?
I think the idea is to make people think twice about getting so wasted.

If you are being collected by the police or an ambulance then its those that we are talking about, rather than being dropped off at A&E and clogging up their services, they can dry out at a drunk tank instead.
But who decides if you are drunk or just a bit tipsy?

What about alcoholics who need treatment? Do they get it?
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Old 04-01-2017, 16:55
CappySpectrum
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But who decides if you are drunk or just a bit tipsy?

What about alcoholics who need treatment? Do they get it?
Lets not do anything at all then?
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:03
wench
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But who decides if you are drunk or just a bit tipsy?

What about alcoholics who need treatment? Do they get it?
If you are inebriated to the point where the police or an ambulance have had to pick you up then those are the ones we are talking about.
It about freeing up the A&E departments so if you find yourself in one then you're obviously drunk enough to be there.

Do alcoholics get treatment if they are treated in A&E at the moment? Or are they shipped back out into the public once sober enough? I don't actually know this hence the question, so I would say whatever they do at the moment can be applied to the drunk tanks.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:05
CollieWobbles
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So how do you collect this money off a drunk person?
Same way as you get money owed off for anything else, on the spot there and then or a bill through the letterbox.

The problem with tying out lengthy posts without engaging brain first is that it ends up being meaningless waffle.

Let's assume there's even the slightest bit of legitimacy about your post. Just off the top of my head, I have a few points:

1) These real emergencies where someone genuinely needs help, is there a vetting process for these too? So for example, person run over by a joy rider IS genuine, whereas the joy rider who later crashed their car ISN'T because it was their choice to drive recklessly?

2) When folk get drunk to the point of needed to call on the emergency services, they're passed the point of caring about things like fines or wasting emergency services' time, so any punishments/penalties won't be considered until after the event.

3) No-one carries £1,000 on them on a night out, cash points don't allow you to withdraw £1,000, and not too many people would have £1,000 available in the first place.

4) Who will process this fine/penalty - the paramedics? Does this mean they'll wait around while the incredibly drunk person searches for their bank card, finds a cash point, makes the payment, gets a receipt, provides ID for their records because obviously the next time they're picked up they have to fork out £2,000.

You really haven't thought this through have you.
1. That's right.

2. No problem, a bill for the fine will be posted out to your address. If you don't pay within a certain time, it will be dealt with in the same as any other unpaid bill is dealt with. I am sure the thought of a £1000+ fine dropping through the door a few days later would make many think twice before going overboard on a night out.

3. Ok, pay what you can there and then, you'll get a bill for the rest. Nobody has got no money when they go out drinking, otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford the stuff in the first place. If you can afford to drink so much you need medical attention, you can afford to pay a fine. If you really can't afford the fine you can't afford to drink either so there's no problem is there.

4. No, the admin staff at the hospitals who deal with all the other paperwork. When you go to hospital you have to give them ID and whoever you see writes down why your there for your medical notes. If they see you've been in more than once for the exact same reason, they could then fine you double. They can also use this ID for sending you the bill. No cash point needed.

I really don't see what is so difficult to understand here. If you need the dentist you have to pay. If your car needs mending you have to pay. If your pet needs the vet you have to pay. If you have to call out an electrician you have to pay. Either at the time of being seen or they send you a bill. You don't get these services for free so why exactly should stupid idiots get seen and treated for free because of their own stupid actions?
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:08
VicnBob
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This needs to be rolled out across the country and not just city centres, perhaps one attached to every A&E unit.
Agree, but I guess its done where the demand is high. It still doesn't stop those who phone for an ambulance anyway, but without doubt decreases the pressure in A & E.
It would appear that gone are the days where you would be too embarrassed to involve emergency services.
Don't think the extension of the licensing laws help.
There are a lot of young people from varying backgrounds have more money to spend on nights out etc than we are led to believe. e.g. freshers week, is now a month!
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:19
Sharon69er
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It's self inflicted so they should pay.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:23
Sharon69er
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4) Who will process this fine/penalty - the paramedics? Does this mean they'll wait around while the incredibly drunk person searches for their bank card, finds a cash point, makes the payment, gets a receipt, provides ID for their records because obviously the next time they're picked up they have to fork out £2,000.

You really haven't thought this through have you.
No cash then bill them, it's quite simple really.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:26
d0lphin
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It's self inflicted so they should pay.
So are a lot of things that people end up in A&E for - you could say a heart attack is self inflicted in some people who are obese, have an unhealthy diet or smoke.
It's a slippery slope if you start judging whether people deserve free NHS treatment.
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Old 04-01-2017, 17:32
Sharon69er
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So are a lot of things that people end up in A&E for - you could say a heart attack is self inflicted in some people who are obese, have an unhealthy diet or smoke.
It's a slippery slope if you start judging whether people deserve free NHS treatment.
Not if the chargeable ones are laid out first.
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Old 04-01-2017, 18:11
Dr. Claw
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i can attest to this, the only time i ever used A&E i was practically the only sober person there. I was also the only one with visible signs of showing pain. this wasnt even a big city i was in so i can only imagine what its like in larger places
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Old 04-01-2017, 18:13
Bedlam_maid
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So are a lot of things that people end up in A&E for - you could say a heart attack is self inflicted in some people who are obese, have an unhealthy diet or smoke.
It's a slippery slope if you start judging whether people deserve free NHS treatment.

The long term effects of an unhealthy lifestyle are a bit different imo. Someone who is drinking alcohol and continues until they become incapable should be left where they fall imo, or dragged out of the pub at closing time and dumped on the pavement.
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Old 04-01-2017, 18:17
tim59
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Same way as you get money owed off for anything else, on the spot there and then or a bill through the letterbox.



1. That's right.

2. No problem, a bill for the fine will be posted out to your address. If you don't pay within a certain time, it will be dealt with in the same as any other unpaid bill is dealt with. I am sure the thought of a £1000+ fine dropping through the door a few days later would make many think twice before going overboard on a night out.

3. Ok, pay what you can there and then, you'll get a bill for the rest. Nobody has got no money when they go out drinking, otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford the stuff in the first place. If you can afford to drink so much you need medical attention, you can afford to pay a fine. If you really can't afford the fine you can't afford to drink either so there's no problem is there.

4. No, the admin staff at the hospitals who deal with all the other paperwork. When you go to hospital you have to give them ID and whoever you see writes down why your there for your medical notes. If they see you've been in more than once for the exact same reason, they could then fine you double. They can also use this ID for sending you the bill. No cash point needed.

I really don't see what is so difficult to understand here. If you need the dentist you have to pay. If your car needs mending you have to pay. If your pet needs the vet you have to pay. If you have to call out an electrician you have to pay. Either at the time of being seen or they send you a bill. You don't get these services for free so why exactly should stupid idiots get seen and treated for free because of their own stupid actions?
Well just to let you know on the spot fines have never been pay on the spot, for one very good reason, the people like the police or council who give out on the spot fines are not allowed to deal with the money side of things, they are only allowed to report and give a fine out, and all systems have an appeal system. And just another point no private business can fine people they can only bill people which a bill and a fine are not the same thing.
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:26
tiacat
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Same way as you get money owed off for anything else, on the spot there and then or a bill through the letterbox.



1. That's right.

2. No problem, a bill for the fine will be posted out to your address. If you don't pay within a certain time, it will be dealt with in the same as any other unpaid bill is dealt with. I am sure the thought of a £1000+ fine dropping through the door a few days later would make many think twice before going overboard on a night out.

3. Ok, pay what you can there and then, you'll get a bill for the rest. Nobody has got no money when they go out drinking, otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford the stuff in the first place. If you can afford to drink so much you need medical attention, you can afford to pay a fine. If you really can't afford the fine you can't afford to drink either so there's no problem is there.

4. No, the admin staff at the hospitals who deal with all the other paperwork. When you go to hospital you have to give them ID and whoever you see writes down why your there for your medical notes. If they see you've been in more than once for the exact same reason, they could then fine you double. They can also use this ID for sending you the bill. No cash point needed.

I really don't see what is so difficult to understand here. If you need the dentist you have to pay. If your car needs mending you have to pay. If your pet needs the vet you have to pay. If you have to call out an electrician you have to pay. Either at the time of being seen or they send you a bill. You don't get these services for free so why exactly should stupid idiots get seen and treated for free because of their own stupid actions?
The services arent free though, we pay through taxes of all varieties.

Im just thinking about someone like me. I hardly ever drink, over the whole of Christmas I had a couple of glasses of prosecco and champagne on the odd day.

I might have a glass of wine on the odd meal out.

So lets say Ive had that glass of wine and on the way out of the restaurant I fall over and an ambulance is needed. But Im also tipsy on my wine. Is this an 'alcohol' induced fall or have I just fell?
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:44
WinterLily
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It's not only the immediate hangover effect that the NHS has regularly to cope with (Try any A&E at the weekends) it is also the long term effect of alcohol on the body. Liver damage is widely accepted by now other medical conditions are beginning to be associated as well. Coronary and breast cancer to name but two
All putting extra pressure on an already overstretched NHS
Spot on!
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Old 04-01-2017, 19:52
BelfastGuy125
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Lets not do anything at all then?
Erm...what's wrong with not doing anything exactly?

The NHS has a million problems before drunks on a saturday night. You could throw 20-30 billion at the NHS and it would still have all the same problems. Going through all the effort of solving this "problem" will not only cause other issues, but will have the grand effect of maybe shaving 5 minutes off your A&E wait.

Sometimes in life and society when we have a "problem", the solution to the "problem" tends to throw up more questions than answers. That's why some "problems" in society never get solved or are just conveniently ignored.

The real issue here is that the Mail ran a few stories recently showing a load of drunk people on a night out and now we are having that 2 day public "debate" we like to have in this country, were we do a moral panic/outrage about drinking.
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Old 04-01-2017, 20:34
LostFool
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i can attest to this, the only time i ever used A&E i was practically the only sober person there. I was also the only one with visible signs of showing pain. this wasnt even a big city i was in so i can only imagine what its like in larger places
Oddly enough the only times in my life I've been hurt enough to go to A&E, I've been stone cold sober. If I fall over when I'm drunk I tend to bounce.
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Old 04-01-2017, 22:01
LakieLady
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I'm rather liking the idea of a national hangover service.

I envisage motorcyclists rocking up at your house with loads of paracetamol, stemetil, rehydration salts and the makings of a full English breakfast for when you feel able to eat.

In my drinking days, I'd have gladly paid for that.
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Old Yesterday, 00:27
muggins14
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I'm rather liking the idea of a national hangover service.

I envisage motorcyclists rocking up at your house with loads of paracetamol, stemetil, rehydration salts and the makings of a full English breakfast for when you feel able to eat.

In my drinking days, I'd have gladly paid for that.
Let's not forget the Alka Seltzer - I swear by that stuff for my once-a-year hangover
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Old Yesterday, 00:34
muggins14
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i can attest to this, the only time i ever used A&E i was practically the only sober person there. I was also the only one with visible signs of showing pain. this wasnt even a big city i was in so i can only imagine what its like in larger places
I've used it twice - first time on a Saturday night falling off a table because I was drunk dancing on a table (many moons ago). Yes most of the other bleeding and battered people in A&E that night were also inebriated to one extent or another.

The second time was a Saturday morning last year - everybody was sober, myself included (I had an agonising kidney infection which I didn't know at the time), mostly the injuries around me were sports related.
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Old Yesterday, 00:37
muggins14
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The long term effects of an unhealthy lifestyle are a bit different imo. Someone who is drinking alcohol and continues until they become incapable should be left where they fall imo, or dragged out of the pub at closing time and dumped on the pavement.
Just imagine a nice stroll through the city on a Sunday morning, bodies - some dead from alcohol poisoning, or ingestion of other substances - strewn around the place after being thrown out of bars, ignored by everybody. That has the making of a good film right there, The Purge booze style.
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Old Yesterday, 01:45
Keyser_Soze1
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They weren't drunk on this scale and certainly didn't have such amount of booze that is available today. Booze is an obsession in this country. They're proud of it and it appears to be the follow the herd mentality. Don't want to be left out.
Read up on the 'Gin Craze' in this country in the first half of the 18th century.

A large percentage of the population were permanently intoxicated - sadly alcohol is a very dangerous and addictive drug indeed.

Unlike other such drugs it is legal and utterly ubiquitous.
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Old Yesterday, 10:32
tenofspades
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Lol we're all in problem solving mode.

But this idea penalises all drinkers rather than targeted to those who abuse the NHS through drink.
Could be a idea where all alcohol is put up but for people with no hospital admissions they get it refunded. But that might be a beurcratic nightmare.
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