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Old Yesterday, 01:51
KaylaL
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I found the whole story unbelievable from day one. Nobody goes from being a squaddie who got a medical discharge, for PTSD then working on a family fish stall, to a high flier city job! He'd have had to have degrees and experience to get close to a fat cat salary. Yet nobody questioned that he was suddenly earning tons of money?
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Old Yesterday, 02:03
kitkat1971
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[quote=Allons-y Amy;85056958]i will cop to that but she had wanted to move into a flat they could afford in another town (can't remember where!) They only moved into the branning living room when Lee got his job and linda pressured them to stay closer to home[/QUOTE

Oh I agree that Linda waa a big part of that. Of wanting them to stay close rather than somewhere more affordable.

I still think Whitney hasn't been realistic about money all along though, even when he was working on the stall.

Also remember she pushed him to leave the stall and get a Managers job at that pub Star's mother owns because it paid better? Even though Lee didn't really want to and it had already been promised to Nancy?
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Old Yesterday, 03:51
Mel94
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Yes, I agree about the Lucy thing.

Whilst I wouldn't put it past Lucy to have cyber bullied somebody, and of course we have to remember that they were writing everybody so they were a suspect at that time (the rot in hell thing), everything we saw of their interactions showed Whitney as more than capable, and willing, to stand up to Lucy. The thing about having a Dad that you mentioned and also her attitude over Lee. She behaved as though Lucy stole Lee from her and that wasn't what happened at all. Lee flirted with Whitney, then saw Lucy and went after her, and Lucy responded. She didn't know Whitney was invokved at all and they weren't even going out properly. But Whitney seemed to have the attitude that he was hers just because she saw him first.

Frankly I think that alone, that Lee effectively chose Lucy and was with her when she died, would have been enough for Whitney to hate her.

Remember how nasty she was to Carol when that friend of Billys that Whitney fancied slept with her? She was also arsey when she couldn't have Jonny, even though the reason was he was gay.

She's always had this, if I want him, I deserve to have him and anybody that gets in the way is a bitch as I've had such a hard time they should back off attitude.

Yes, I clearly remember the "yes of course you can get an advance, just tell your boss" reply when Lee said they didn't have the money for the flat and that the company wouldn't give him an advance. She also didn't seem to realise that an advance, even if possible, would make the nect month's salary much less so where was the money for that rent, not to mention other stuff. If there had been a line a couple of weeks later of her saying she was being careful as she knew they'd had some of the salaryin advance, I'd give her more leeway, but there wasn't, she just kept spending.

Again, how can she claim she never asked for anything when she told him to get an advance for a flat Lee said they couldn't afford?
I agree, I wouldn't put it past Lucy either. I saw bits and pieces of the Lauren, Lucy and Whitney friendship and it could be quite toxic at times. They seemed more like 'frenemies' than actual friends. I didn't start watching properly until 2012/13 though, so I don't know their full history. I just have a feeling that Lucy and Whitney's online conversation was more of a two-sided argument than a one-sided bullying, especially with the look Whitney gave her when she saw Lucy with Lee and how she ranted on about her in the flashback episode. Whitney also only claimed Lucy bullied her to justify her sending the rot in hell card when Tamwar called her out, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a way for her to come across in a better light to him.

I also agree with what you say about Whitney's attitude when someone's standing in the way of what/who she wants. I remember how nasty she was towards Nancy when she said Ryan couldn't stay and how she encouraged Lee to go for that job at the bar, knowing it would upset Nancy. She has been very forgiving with Lee in one way, she forgave his one night stand with Abi and forgave that the STD could have caused the miscarriage (although it was one possible reason among countless others) and she's stood by him through his initial struggles with depression and now the lies he's told. One thing I missed in this storyline was Nancy. She would have gave Whitney a dose of reality when needed and would have spotted that Lee's struggling and would have kept on at him about it whereas, Johnny is too passive (especially Ted's portrayal of him.)

It's astounding how different Lee was when he first arrived. While I was writing my first post, I was watching some clips on Youtube of Lucy's last few episodes to remind myself of what happened between Whitney, Lee and Lucy and Lee is so different now. He was cocky, self assured enough to try it on with different women but he also had a hidden vulnerability there when Lucy asked him what it was like in the army. He's almost like a different person, which is sad, as it's what mental illness has done to him. I can't justify his actions with stealing the charity fund, setting up the robbery and the lies, but I can definitely see where his reasons come from. I also think Lucy had depression before she died, or she was severely unhappy at least. She broke down in Lee's arms after he called her beautiful and she broke down to Jane in the flashback episode. She didn't feel good enough in Ian's eyes, she was struggling to make something of herself after her job with Janine fell through and with the new business and she was getting into questionable relationships to make herself feel worthwhile but it only added to her unhappiness (sleeping with Max behind Lauren's back.) I would have liked to have seen more of Lucy and Lee, it's a shame they only had a few episodes together.
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Old Yesterday, 03:54
Mel94
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I found the whole story unbelievable from day one. Nobody goes from being a squaddie who got a medical discharge, for PTSD then working on a family fish stall, to a high flier city job! He'd have had to have degrees and experience to get close to a fat cat salary. Yet nobody questioned that he was suddenly earning tons of money?
I get the impression that Mick and Linda are both inexperienced with finding their way in the world of work, that's why they were so naive. It seems like they both took on working in Elaine's pub when they left school and had stayed like that until they moved to the Vic. So neither of them had to job search, go through interviews or worry about what qualifications or experience they had.
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Old Yesterday, 04:28
Zarla
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Surely Johnny at least would have seen through Lee's lies about working in the City? They can't be naive enough to think that a guy with no finance background or degree would suddenly be snatched up?
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Old Yesterday, 05:05
AntoniaA
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I found the whole story unbelievable from day one. Nobody goes from being a squaddie who got a medical discharge, for PTSD then working on a family fish stall, to a high flier city job! He'd have had to have degrees and experience to get close to a fat cat salary. Yet nobody questioned that he was suddenly earning tons of money?
That's not strictly accurate; plenty of city traders, money brokers, etc, are ex-barrow boys, not particularly educated. The City is known for that and some of them do earn loadsamoney.
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Old Yesterday, 08:09
Lady Voldemort
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Oh yes, the advance thing. He told her that he couldn't just go up to his boss and ask for an advance and she wouldn't have it and was adamant that he could and should and it would be absolutely fine.

The fact that they would then be short the following month notwithstanding, I can just imagine the look on their faces at my place if I asked for an advance and I've been there for over a decade, not a fortnight. He's not on the fish stall with his grandad now Whit.

So no, she's not to blame for the lies or the debt, that's all Lee. But to claim she's never asked for anything when she's actually been fairly demanding and pushy, well she's deluding herself and maybe she'll realise that when she's had a good think about everything.

Since she's not interested in "stuff" then presumbly we'll see her selling her expensive earrings, giving up the flat and moving back to the pub over the next couple of episodes to pay Mick back some of the bail out money. That girl is a diamond after all
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Old Yesterday, 08:19
Matt35
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If Whitney had known from the start that Lee worked in a call center then she wouldn't have made demands like putting down a deposit for a flat. Lee was the one who made her believe he had this highly paid job because he wanted to give her the very best even though as far as I remember she's never been that kind of person.
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Old Yesterday, 13:04
Adam_Burke1
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Whit's a good time girl and must be going out of her head with that dumbo husband of hers who can't give her good seeing to. Would it not be better to have a fling with fit looking girl with her instead of a late fortysomething mini mart thief who has no ambitions in life other than reading her classics behind the counter? Besides, Whit wants a baby and Kush has monumental amounts of seed.
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Old Yesterday, 13:25
Mint-Opinion
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If Whitney had known from the start that Lee worked in a call center then she wouldn't have made demands like putting down a deposit for a flat. Lee was the one who made her believe he had this highly paid job because he wanted to give her the very best even though as far as I remember she's never been that kind of person.
She was demanding they put a deposit on a flat before Lee was working in the call centre. He was still flogging scampi at that point.
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Old Yesterday, 13:32
Adam_Burke1
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She was demanding they put a deposit on a flat before Lee was working in the call centre. He was still flogging scampi at that point.
She was completely naive and had an unrealistic sense of reality where he was a junior partner in a small scale seafood market stall. This lack of a sense of proportion allowed her to have delusions of grandeur where she expected regular gifts to be lavished upon her with a cursory "are you sure we can afford it Lee?" She's definitely a contributory factor in his financial woes although he's a idiot.
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Old Yesterday, 14:01
kitkat1971
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I get the impression that Mick and Linda are both inexperienced with finding their way in the world of work, that's why they were so naive. It seems like they both took on working in Elaine's pub when they left school and had stayed like that until they moved to the Vic. So neither of them had to job search, go through interviews or worry about what qualifications or experience they had.
I agree.

I think their assumptions (and much of the issue has come from the family all assuming things about what a city job woukd be re salary, stature and perks and Lee not correcting them rather than initiating a lie) demonstrates their lack of knowledge and experience in anything approaching the Corporate world.

Think about it, Mick and Linda have worked in a family run pub from School. Shirley has gone from one dead end job to another. Tina works on the cafe and probabky has always done similar work. Whitney has either worked with young children, or on stalls or bars, again with family.

Not one of them has ever worked on an office environment, or had to apply for that kind of work. They therefore have no real concept of what is required re qualifucations and experience or what the actual work involves and management structures are like.

All that stuff with Whitney assuming he had his own office and a PA (and that was her that said it first, not Lee), assuming the people that came out of the building worked for Lee rather than with him or even above him, referring to them as 'staff' to their faces(!?) Which would be crass even if they had been reporting to him, Shirley buying him executive toys, the briefcase and photo for hus desk, suggests to me that their idea of office work has come from watching Dynasty or Dallas! And that they assume that working in the 'city' autoomatically means a person has made it.

They have all led quite insular lives work wise and are rather naive.

Jonny is the only one that would and should know better and I think he did suspect but hasn't pushed it.

I don't think other families would have been the same. Max and Jacj for example have both worked in industries where they'd have had to apply for roles and come into contact with people from.varied walks of life and been inside offices so would have smelt a rat pretty immediately and probably been advising Lee that this job sounded too hood to be true, be careful and also not to over extend himself financially when still on probation etc.
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Old Yesterday, 14:03
kitkat1971
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She was demanding they put a deposit on a flat before Lee was working in the call centre. He was still flogging scampi at that point.
Exactly.

So many people seem to be forgetting this, including Whitney herself.
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Old Yesterday, 14:07
kitkat1971
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That's not strictly accurate; plenty of city traders, money brokers, etc, are ex-barrow boys, not particularly educated. The City is known for that and some of them do earn loadsamoney.
True.

I think that they probably assumed he was working at the Stock Exchange or something similar and they can make huge money quickly.

I think they probably think all City jobs are like that whereas most are just boring,mundane and not greatly paid. They just happen to be located in the City of London rather than being City jobs.

ETA Mick and Linda's age might play into this too as they'd have been kids in the 80s which was the height of unqualified smart talking wide boys getting jobs oat the Stock Exchange and making a bloody fortune. So, maybe they knew of people from their school a few years older than them that did that? There were certainly people at my school who didn't achieve much academically that went straight into those kind of jobs on leaving at 16 in the mid to late 80s.
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Old Yesterday, 17:23
Adam_Burke1
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True.

I think that they probably assumed he was working at the Stock Exchange or something similar and they can make huge money quickly.

I think they probably think all City jobs are like that whereas most are just boring,mundane and not greatly paid. They just happen to be located in the City of London rather than being City jobs.

ETA Mick and Linda's age might play into this too as they'd have been kids in the 80s which was the height of unqualified smart talking wide boys getting jobs oat the Stock Exchange and making a bloody fortune. So, maybe they knew of people from their school a few years older than them that did that? There were certainly people at my school who didn't achieve much academically that went straight into those kind of jobs on leaving at 16 in the mid to late 80s.
The reality these days though is that one requires an undergraduate degree at the very minimum even to be a trader on the floor. Perhaps Mick being a hands on chappy with a patter didn't realise that and thought his son is a Gordon Gecko.
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Old Yesterday, 17:41
Ten_Ben
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The reality these days though is that one requires an undergraduate degree at the very minimum even to be a trader on the floor. Perhaps Mick being a hands on chappy with a patter didn't realise that and thought his son is a Gordon Gecko.
But no-one - no-one - has actually asked Lee about his job. They've all made assumptions and passed a few comments which Lee hasn't corrected. No-one has actually said, "So what is it you do, Lee?", "Tell us about the new job, we're interested."
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Old Yesterday, 18:16
kitkat1971
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The reality these days though is that one requires an undergraduate degree at the very minimum even to be a trader on the floor. Perhaps Mick being a hands on chappy with a patter didn't realise that and thought his son is a Gordon Gecko.
These days yes but they may be making their assumptions from what it was like 25 to 30 years ago when City Traders that were basically wide boys with the gift of the gab that had traded market stalls in for the Stock Floor were constantly in the news.

As Ten points out above, nobody has ever actually asked Lee wat the job was, they've made assumptions because it is in 'the City'. Assumptions he has been too embarrassed and ashamed to correct.
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