DS Forums

 
 

5g !


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-01-2017, 17:04
Zebb
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 652

Quote;
New 5G networks are expected to provide speeds at least 10 times and maybe 100 times faster than today's 4G networks, giving the potential to connect at least 100 billion devices with download speeds that can reach 10 gigabits per second.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-at-t-5g-idUKKBN14O1J4

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300385196.html

Forum wouldn't let me use a capital G in the title.
Zebb is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 04-01-2017, 18:43
red_snow
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 133
Not without serious backhaul it won't
red_snow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 18:51
lightspeed2398
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,294
Fairly bland press release from AT&T really that states the obvious evolution of its network. Not much point in posting it.

Main points for 5G so far are :

- Seamless with 4G with smooth evolution from one to the other over time.
- Low Latency (under 10ms at first transitioning to 1-2ms eventually)
- High Reliability (completely seamless and reliable for all applications from autonomous cars to IoT clothing)
- High throughput (lots of video on the go etc all that you want on that front although probably not for home broadband in most areas of the UK)


Needed for 5G:

- Ultra dense network to support spectrum in the 28GHz range mostly. (5G NR may be deployed at any band but that's the big one for 5G along potentially with 3.5Ghz but that could still be used for 4G). By Ultra Dense I mean Ultra Dense. 20m intervals potentially in the busiest of areas and in indoor scenarios like in airports / rail stations one at every gate or platform.
- Fibre deployments to cities to front/backhaul the masts. This is quite tricky to explain but the topology of the network will likely drastically change, a lot of it will be virtualised on a big server / node in the city and then linked by fibre to a RRU on a mast in the city.
- Range of device support ranging from those that do 64kbps for IoT to phones/tablets/MBB devices which are capable of multi-gig connections.

How it will appear to the user is actually fairly different to the engineering behind it. It'll be fairly transparent to the user whether they're on 4G or 5G or whether they're on a small cell or the macro etc, it should "just work" with near 100% reliability but the complexity behind it is incredible on the network front.

What I think we'll notice is a lot of ground laying work of the next few years that'll be fun.
lightspeed2398 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 19:00
rjb101
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,606
Sounds like it'll need rather a lot of investment and planning. Not happening here then
rjb101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 19:06
lightspeed2398
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,294
Sounds like it'll need rather a lot of investment and planning. Not happening here then
Yes & no. Because of how it'll work with 4G there won't be a race to get a national overlay like EE/Voda/o2. But the networks are already planning for it and they're already working out how to do it and our networks have some really good people behind them, it's just they've been limited by margins / the regulatory environment and what the majority of people actually wanted/needed/were willing to pay for.

The main hope for financing is that there will be lots of new revenue opportunities with 5G (IoT/Tablets etc/M2M). So if the infrastructure is in place for everything to be connected at low cost (T-Mobile USA announced their IoT pricing yesterday - $20-25/device/year ) then things will prosper.
lightspeed2398 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 22:03
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
Not without serious backhaul it won't
Well you say that but I've been arguing that if (big if) BT followed suit with US telecoms network plans, then they hope to use small cells to deliver wireless home broadband at 1Gb/s by putting in local small cells. Each small cell would need fibre but it would still be a lot cheaper than digging up every property to install fibre.

Also backhaul is improving massively now right, 10 Gigabit connections are easily available and surely this can be further improved over the years. Realistically nobody is going to max out even a 1Gb/s connection as anything you stream would only really use < 20Mb/s even downloads would only take a few seconds if they did reach high speeds.

I think the networks have contracted for the backhaul that they needed for 3G and 4G because they knew they could only shift < 1 Gigabit per second per mast / site, but we know backhaul isn't the bottleneck for fixed broadband as they can deliver much more to local cabinets.

Once the wireless technology is capable of many Gb/s the backhaul should be do-able. We may not even increase data consumption by that much of a margin, but what we access will be very low latency and very fast to download or begin streaming or loading, it'll essentially be the same things we do, the only reason why it would use more data is because of higher quality streams or quicker to download or load things therefore the user isn't waiting and they're on to the next download or thing.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 22:17
Glawster2002
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Posts: 10,402
- Fibre deployments to cities to front/backhaul the masts. This is quite tricky to explain but the topology of the network will likely drastically change, a lot of it will be virtualised on a big server / node in the city and then linked by fibre to a RRU on a mast in the city.
The likes of Vodafone have had a fibre backhaul to the masts for years, I'm not sure why this would be an issue.
Glawster2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 22:26
Thine Wonk
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 14,541
The likes of Vodafone have had a fibre backhaul to the masts for years, I'm not sure why this would be an issue.
I think most networks have prefered fibre to sites where available and presumably other technologies are getting faster too, 5G spec may even allow for backhaul over 5G, so you get a really beefy fibre link to a big site and then send that to other sites wirelessly and still active really fast speeds, I think it is just too early to say though we'll have to wait a couple of years to see how plans develop.
Thine Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 22:33
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,633
The likes of Vodafone have had a fibre backhaul to the masts for years, I'm not sure why this would be an issue.
If Vodafone have had fibre to my local cell site for years, it must have been carrying only a single crappy E1 given how rubbish the performance has been. Even when it finally got 3G (around the time Ofcom threatened to punish them for not meeting targets... hmm).

That or it's using a microwave link from about 1991. I'm convinced that they plugged in a 3G basestation and connected it to the existing 2G backhaul.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 22:37
noise747
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 22,785
The likes of Vodafone have had a fibre backhaul to the masts for years, I'm not sure why this would be an issue.
Vodafone can not even get 3G running without problems, so no chance of them getting 5G, which is why I am dumping them.

I do not have 4G yet, so it will be years before I get 5G even if it we was going to get soon.
noise747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 23:56
lightspeed2398
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,294
I think most networks have prefered fibre to sites where available and presumably other technologies are getting faster too, 5G spec may even allow for backhaul over 5G, so you get a really beefy fibre link to a big site and then send that to other sites wirelessly and still active really fast speeds, I think it is just too early to say though we'll have to wait a couple of years to see how plans develop.
Backhaul over 4G exists today. Sprint often use it in America to backhaul their masts. EE use it for some rural small cells in Wales as well.
lightspeed2398 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 23:59
lightspeed2398
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,294
The likes of Vodafone have had a fibre backhaul to the masts for years, I'm not sure why this would be an issue.
Different ball game entirely, That's fibre to a few sites that are in good locations, this is talking about mass fibre in a city to masts every 20m supporting gigabytes of traffic. Voda themselves have said their target is 90% of urban masts having fibre by 2020 and they've said that's going to be a massive challenge. The challenge of 5G backhaul cannot be underestimated, according to most in the industry.
lightspeed2398 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 00:02
lightspeed2398
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,294
If Vodafone have had fibre to my local cell site for years, it must have been carrying only a single crappy E1 given how rubbish the performance has been. Even when it finally got 3G (around the time Ofcom threatened to punish them for not meeting targets... hmm).

That or it's using a microwave link from about 1991. I'm convinced that they plugged in a 3G basestation and connected it to the existing 2G backhaul.
You've mentioned before but probably not too far off from the truth, was it during the period when Ofcom were going to fine them unless they double timed it?
lightspeed2398 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:05
Glawster2002
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Posts: 10,402
Different ball game entirely, That's fibre to a few sites that are in good locations, this is talking about mass fibre in a city to masts every 20m supporting gigabytes of traffic. Voda themselves have said their target is 90% of urban masts having fibre by 2020 and they've said that's going to be a massive challenge. The challenge of 5G backhaul cannot be underestimated, according to most in the industry.
But in optical transmission terms "gigabytes of traffic" really isn't that much of an issue.

Yes, there will be challenges installing the necessary infrastructure but the hardware with the traffic capacity required for the backhaul network really isn't an issue, it is available today.

200 Gbit/s per channel DWDM is pretty much standard now, an 80 channel system gives an awful lot of capacity, and 400 Gbit/ per channel is just being rolled out by many operators.
Glawster2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:43
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,633
You've mentioned before but probably not too far off from the truth, was it during the period when Ofcom were going to fine them unless they double timed it?
I think it was around that time, so I think they literally just plugged in the 3G base station and called it a day.

Coverage is actually pretty good (it must be 900MHz), but the performance is/was crap, you'd think you were still on GPRS. I haven't tried Vodafone in a while so I don't know if they've improved it, switched 4G on, etc

Even O2's nearby 2100MHz site was giving 10Mbps+, but the coverage is rubbish
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:40
binary
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 634
...
Needed for 5G:

- Ultra dense network to support spectrum in the 28GHz range mostly. (5G NR may be deployed at any band but that's the big one for 5G along potentially with 3.5Ghz but that could still be used for 4G). By Ultra Dense I mean Ultra Dense. 20m intervals potentially in the busiest of areas and in indoor scenarios like in airports / rail stations one at every gate or platform.
...
There's going to be a lot of wires in our wireless future!
binary is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:14.