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Why do so many smokers smoke in areas that are very clearly marked as no smoking?


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Old Yesterday, 15:41
Mark39London
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The Law covers enclosed spaces.
Private Property is covered by any rules the owner fancies.
This is it ^

Stations, hospitals, airports etc are private and the owners can create a rule if they so choose. If you don't like it, then don't go there.

Why some people can't accept this, I don't know (the majority do).

Most of the facilities above do actually provide areas for smokers, although they may not always be that convenient.
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Old Yesterday, 16:12
malpasc
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Hospitals are a strange one.

Should NHS hospitals provide outside smoking areas considering they treat people with illnesses caused by smoking, and perhaps should not be 'encouraging' bad habits?

Its a bit like NHS medical staff - should they be seen to be smoking, or be overweight for that matter given that both can be very damaging to health and they ought to set an example themselves if they're doling out advice and treatment.
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Old Yesterday, 16:13
brian_w
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Smokers ignoring these notices proves that smoking causes selective word blindness.
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Old Yesterday, 16:18
malpasc
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This is it ^

Stations, hospitals, airports etc are private and the owners can create a rule if they so choose. If you don't like it, then don't go there.

Why some people can't accept this, I don't know (the majority do).

Most of the facilities above do actually provide areas for smokers, although they may not always be that convenient.
I don't think railway stations are privately owned. Railway infrastructure is owned by Network Rail, a government organisation.
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Old Yesterday, 16:20
walterwhite
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The Law covers enclosed spaces.
Private Property is covered by any rules the owner fancies.
Pretty unenforceable though.
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Old Yesterday, 16:24
Mark39London
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I don't think railway stations are privately owned. Railway infrastructure is owned by Network Rail, a government organisation.
It's a mix between the train operators and Network Rail, but either way, whoever owns it can make their own rules.
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Old Yesterday, 16:24
jjwales
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But that is my point. A fully enclosed space (4 walls and a ceiling) is clear and unambiguous. But the station platform in question is not enclosed. It is open to the elements. However to get to the platform you enter a door, through a partial building, a turnstile and down some steps before emerging out of doors again. But presumably because you pass through an indoor entrance way Network Rail or whoever deem it to be inside - inside their space.
That's up to them. They can make any rules they like, as others have said.
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Old Yesterday, 16:24
Mark39London
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Pretty unenforceable though.
Most laws are until you get caught and issued with a fine.
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Old Yesterday, 16:25
walterwhite
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Most laws are until you get caught and issued with a fine.
No-one can fine you because they made up a rule on their property.
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Old Yesterday, 16:25
tim59
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Hospitals are a strange one.

Should NHS hospitals provide outside smoking areas considering they treat people with illnesses caused by smoking, and perhaps should not be 'encouraging' bad habits?

Its a bit like NHS medical staff - should they be seen to be smoking, or be overweight for that matter given that both can be very damaging to health and they ought to set an example themselves if they're doling out advice and treatment.
Well you could say the same about MPs government ministers.
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Old Yesterday, 16:29
Mark39London
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No-one can fine you because they made up a rule on their property.
Whatever British Transport Police wish to do with you then, or in the case or other locations, removed from their property.
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Old Yesterday, 16:32
walterwhite
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Whatever British Transport Police wish to do with you then, or in the case or other locations, removed from their property.
Why would BTP get involved?

You could be asked to leave if you smoked say in the car park of a no smoking site, but they couldn't fine you.
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Old Yesterday, 16:35
Mark39London
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Why would BTP get involved?

You could be asked to leave if you smoked say in the car park of a no smoking site, but they couldn't fine you.
Because in the case of railways, their byelaws are fully enforceable.

Other private locations would just ask you to leave.
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Old Yesterday, 17:12
Richard46
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Because in the case of railways, their byelaws are fully enforceable.

Other private locations would just ask you to leave.
That sounds right to me. Places like pubs however have a better chance of enforcing a ban than say a Hospital. The pub can refuse to serve you what can a Hospital do?

I have heard it argued that smoking in hospital grounds in contravention of their 'rules' could constitute a breech of the peace or some such law and justify police action but in reality the Police are not going to give a smoking related incident any priority.
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Old Yesterday, 17:17
sorcha_healy27
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A comment as dumb as "outside is outside" deserves hyperbole.
you're one to talk about dumb comments
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Old Yesterday, 17:19
Frazer_Young
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I think that most smokers will always smoke wherever the hell they want, regardless of any No Smoking signs.

I often go into town to help my mother with the shopping and there are always large groups of smokers stood outside the main precinct, puffing away and creating huge clouds of filth in the process. You should see the looks that they give you if you cough or wave your arms around to dispel the smoke. I have never smoked myself and I think it is a filthy habit. Mind you, I have asthma, so smoking would not be a good idea. My dad smoked heavily for most of his life, though and he recently died from lung cancer, as a result of this. He basically contributed towards his own ill health and death, as do most other smokers and he remained in denial about this until the day that he died.

Mum and I run the gauntlet of "The Smoke" whenever we walk into or out of the shopping centre. We call it Lung Cancer Avenue, in fact, lol. Still, I guess that it keeps the Macmillan Nurses and the cancer wards in hospitals in work. My dad was the only one in my immediate family that smoked and he paid a heavy price for it. So, I have no sympathy for smokers at all. They made that choice to wreck their own health and so they must accept the consequences of their own actions. They have no one to blame for their health issues but themselves.

So, in reponse to the thread title, I guess that smokers will carry on smoking, because there is no one around to stop them and they know that they are relatively safe from prosecution. No one would be brave enough to confront a smoker face to face. I know that I certainly wouldn't.
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Old Yesterday, 17:20
muggins14
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That sounds right to me. Places like pubs however have a better chance of enforcing a ban than say a Hospital. The pub can refuse to serve you what can a Hospital do?

I have heard it argued that smoking in hospital grounds in contravention of their 'rules' could constitute a breech of the peace or some such law and justify police action but in reality the Police are not going to give a smoking related incident any priority.
Our hospital made a big hoohah several years ago, about going smoke-free inside and outside on the premises, they caved last year and installed two smoking areas outside because it was obvious people were going to smoke outside by the door, so giving them a smoking area again at least meant they would stick to an area away from the main entrance.
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Old Yesterday, 17:21
andy1231
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Where I work the whole site is no smoking, there are signs up everywhere including on the wall outside the main entrance, yet everyday we get visitors who light up and smoke underneath these very signs. Smokers are selfish people who don't care what the rules are or what effect their filthy habit may have on other people.
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Old Yesterday, 17:21
sorcha_healy27
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I am a smoker and I have no issue with the smoking ban at all.

What annoys me though is the pettiness of some rules in relation to smoking outside and the hysterical over reactions of some non smokers

The situation at the railway station as one person mentioned here is a prime example of the pettiness I mean.
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Old Yesterday, 17:24
Mark39London
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That sounds right to me. Places like pubs however have a better chance of enforcing a ban than say a Hospital. The pub can refuse to serve you what can a Hospital do?

I have heard it argued that smoking in hospital grounds in contravention of their 'rules' could constitute a breech of the peace or some such law and justify police action but in reality the Police are not going to give a smoking related incident any priority.
Yes, I can imagine of all the locations, NHS premises are the most difficult to enforce smoking bans.

If you are a visitor, I guess that they could ask you to leave, but in the case of patients they are likely stuck with you.

It's probably easier for them to provide a smoking area away from doors or windows and enforce its use the best they can.
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Old Yesterday, 17:27
muggins14
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But that is my point. A fully enclosed space (4 walls and a ceiling) is clear and unambiguous. But the station platform in question is not enclosed. It is open to the elements. However to get to the platform you enter a door, through a partial building, a turnstile and down some steps before emerging out of doors again. But presumably because you pass through an indoor entrance way Network Rail or whoever deem it to be inside - inside their space.
Our railway station has partially covered platforms - the roof or covering comes over about half/two-thirds of the platform so it's considered, as some bus stops are, to be an enclosed space and therefore no smoking allowed.

There is also the issue of it being a place of work

ETA: You mentioned airports - I know Gatwick (according to my brother) has a smoking area, as does Bristol as I made good use of it to vape when I was there in the summer.
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Old Yesterday, 17:28
Sharon69er
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Like bus shelters, outside stations and airports there are usually loads of very clear signs. But smokers just flounce these and light up where they like.

It's horrible for us non smokers that have to wait for a late bus for over an hour and constantly breath in smoke. Couldn't move far away else the bus might quickly come and I could miss it
I agree with the sign ignoring but nobody is forcing you to stand among smoke at a bus shelter for over an hour.
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Old Yesterday, 17:37
muggins14
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I think the number of adult smokers in the UK is reducing. They are literally a dying breed.
Aided by the availability of vaping, which is now over the 2 million people mark now. Not all dying, many just making a healthier choice.
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Old Yesterday, 17:40
muggins14
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I agree with the sign ignoring but nobody is forcing you to stand among smoke at a bus shelter for over an hour.
I agree with you there, but still the FM does have a right to take shelter in the bus shelter whilst waiting without being smoked all over. It's what the bus shelter is for after all, they shouldn't have to leave if they don't want to, or be made to feel uncomfortable. I'm an ex-smoker, I don't even vape under the bus shelter, never smoked under one either.

Let's face it, some people - smokers or not, are inconsiderate, some aren't.
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Old Yesterday, 17:56
RobinOfLoxley
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Our hospital made a big hoohah several years ago, about going smoke-free inside and outside on the premises, they caved last year and installed two smoking areas outside because it was obvious people were going to smoke outside by the door, so giving them a smoking area again at least meant they would stick to an area away from the main entrance.
Our hospital did the same. The shelters were quite expensive too. Then they took them away again.

Apart from the very last line (in Signage. And that's not clear either), I'm really not sure their current No Smoking Policy is anything more than an aspiration.

I always find an out of the way place, away from non-smokers, and dispose of my butts responsibly anyway.
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