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Minimum Wage Vs Living Wage


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Old 04-01-2017, 23:13
scorpionatthepc
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Minimum wage = £220 per week approx for 40 hours + £55 approx per week working tax credit (single and over 25) = £275 per week

Living wage = £250 per week approx for 40 hours + £5 per week universal credit topup (single and over 25) = £255 per week

I thought you were suppose to be 'better of' with this living wage? More like put in one hand and take out the other.

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Old 04-01-2017, 23:15
koantemplation
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Minimum wage = £220 per week approx for 40 hours + £55 approx per week working tax credit (single and over 25) = £275 per week

Living wage = £250 per week approx for 40 hours + £5 per week universal credit topup (single and over 25) = £255 per week

I thought you were suppose to be 'better of' with this living wage? More like put in one hand and take out the other.

Which is why most people know the 'Living wage' is really still the minimum wage under a false name.
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Old Yesterday, 00:12
muggins14
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Whereas, for those whose employers participate in the Living Wage as agreed by the Living Wage Foundation, the pay would be £8.45 (outside London) per hour, = £338pw at 40hrs per week. A big difference. It's also applied to 18 years and older, no discrimination for those under 25.

London rate £9.75 per hour = £390 per week.
http://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-living-wage

It's great that many employers are following this scheme and choose to pay the real living wage on a voluntary basis, sadly so many more are choosing to pay the NMW, falsely called a 'living wage'.
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Old Yesterday, 03:25
Madamfluff
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Minimum wage = £220 per week approx for 40 hours + £55 approx per week working tax credit (single and over 25) = £275 per week

Living wage = £250 per week approx for 40 hours + £5 per week universal credit topup (single and over 25) = £255 per week

I thought you were suppose to be 'better of' with this living wage? More like put in one hand and take out the other.

Its come as a great shock to a lot of people that when their income goes up their benefits come down a lot of people thought they were going to get more money and still claim the same level of benefits
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Old Yesterday, 03:51
1Mickey
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The New Living Wage was about making employers pay more so the government have to borrow less. If you really believed the spiel from the government about getting the pay rise you deserve then i worry for you................and in even better news, inflation is about to go up and you're soon going to be even worse off. Happy new year
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Old Yesterday, 04:48
Catweazle1066
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If an employer is forced to pay the minimum wage, the employer could stick to that, so the minimum wage becomes the maximum wage for some

It's all a con
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Old Yesterday, 09:20
LakieLady
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Is the taper rate different for universal credit and working tax credits? If so, you're comparing apples and oranges. In-work UC hasn't started here yet, so I'm not familiar with the rates/thresholds.

The taper rate for WTC is 41%, so an extra £30 pw in gross pay should only lead to a drop of £12.30 in tax credits. However, the rise to £250 pw will all be above the personal allowance (assuming the standard tax code applies), so after deducting tax and NI, the net gain from an extra £30 pw will only be £20.40 or thereabouts.

Overall, you'd only end up £8.10 better off by earning that extra £30. If you were getting housing benefit as well, your HB would go down by £5.21, reducing the net gain to less than £3.

It's easy to see why people on low incomes find it's not worth working more hours or getting better paid jobs. And why we need a properly integrated tax and benefit system.

NB: too lazy to shift from the sofa to get a calculator, so mental arithmetic should not be relied upon!
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Old Yesterday, 09:54
molliepops
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Minimum wage = £220 per week approx for 40 hours + £55 approx per week working tax credit (single and over 25) = £275 per week

Living wage = £250 per week approx for 40 hours + £5 per week universal credit topup (single and over 25) = £255 per week

I thought you were suppose to be 'better of' with this living wage? More like put in one hand and take out the other.

Not everyone gets top up benefits so many of us are better off, not significantly but a bit.
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Old Yesterday, 10:41
scorpionatthepc
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Is the taper rate different for universal credit and working tax credits? If so, you're comparing apples and oranges. In-work UC hasn't started here yet, so I'm not familiar with the rates/thresholds.

The taper rate for WTC is 41%, so an extra £30 pw in gross pay should only lead to a drop of £12.30 in tax credits. However, the rise to £250 pw will all be above the personal allowance (assuming the standard tax code applies), so after deducting tax and NI, the net gain from an extra £30 pw will only be £20.40 or thereabouts.

Overall, you'd only end up £8.10 better off by earning that extra £30. If you were getting housing benefit as well, your HB would go down by £5.21, reducing the net gain to less than £3.

It's easy to see why people on low incomes find it's not worth working more hours or getting better paid jobs. And why we need a properly integrated tax and benefit system.

NB: too lazy to shift from the sofa to get a calculator, so mental arithmetic should not be relied upon!
I'm only going off what my friend told me. He started just work just before christmas and was looking forward to getting his backdated universal credit as working tax credit is now part of universal credit so he was expecting around £200-£250 for 4 weeks.

All he got was a lousy £20
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Old Yesterday, 11:02
Brian The Dog
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If an employer is forced to pay the minimum wage, the employer could stick to that, so the minimum wage becomes the maximum wage for some

It's all a con
It's funny in a most unfunny way that the minimum wage was brought in as the absolute minimum you could pay someone to stop them being exploited. Sad therefore that for so many general jobs nowadays it has become the Standard Wage. Meaning if the company could get away with paying you less, it would, but can't.

Shameful really.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08
Brian The Dog
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Not everyone gets top up benefits so many of us are better off, not significantly but a bit.
Yes indeed: I'm single, own my own house completely and don't have any children. So no extra hand-outs for my life choices for me.

I knew I did life all wrong. I should have dropped out kids all over the place and lived in rented accommodation all my life and been grabbing every hand-out I could get.

I get no rewards for not being a burden on the state. You can see why others freely chose a different path in life.
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Old Yesterday, 11:37
tim59
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Yes indeed: I'm single, own my own house completely and don't have any children. So no extra hand-outs for my life choices for me.

I knew I did life all wrong. I should have dropped out kids all over the place and lived in rented accommodation all my life and been grabbing every hand-out I could get.

I get no rewards for not being a burden on the state. You can see why others freely chose a different path in life.
I would say housing is the problem in the uk, Home ownership in England at lowest level in 30 years as housing crisis grows. People dont choose not to just buy a house, the biggest increase that has been seen is people living in private rental sector which gives then no security at all. When like this week the government says it will help with the price of starter homes, which start at prices from £ 250,000 to £450,000 would you even get a mortgage on these if you are on NMW or what the government now call the living wage. Also average house prices in England are £217,000
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Old Yesterday, 11:53
louise1966
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Minimum wage = £220 per week approx for 40 hours + £55 approx per week working tax credit (single and over 25) = £275 per week

Living wage = £250 per week approx for 40 hours + £5 per week universal credit topup (single and over 25) = £255 per week

I thought you were suppose to be 'better of' with this living wage? More like put in one hand and take out the other.

£55 a week, WTC, on £220? Where do you live? If you go on the gov.co.uk website, and enter the correct details, no way are you entitled to this amount.
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Old Yesterday, 12:53
walterwhite
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I would say housing is the problem in the uk, Home ownership in England at lowest level in 30 years as housing crisis grows. People dont choose not to just buy a house, the biggest increase that has been seen is people living in private rental sector which gives then no security at all. When like this week the government says it will help with the price of starter homes, which start at prices from £ 250,000 to £450,000 would you even get a mortgage on these if you are on NMW or what the government now call the living wage. Also average house prices in England are £217,000
Those numbers are the cap on prices, not the starting price.
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Old Yesterday, 13:03
tim59
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Those numbers are the cap on prices, not the starting price.
Housing prices in the uk are the problem, either to buy or renting, the uk has the highest rents in Europe.
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Old Yesterday, 16:24
karapote monkey
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You don't get working tax credits if you're single and earning £7.20 an hour
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Old Yesterday, 17:21
scorpionatthepc
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£55 a week, WTC, on £220? Where do you live? If you go on the gov.co.uk website, and enter the correct details, no way are you entitled to this amount.
Northwest England and yes I got that amount when I was on minimum wage in 2015. I did my claim over the phone and they told me I'd get around £55 a week. Think minimum wage was around £6.50 an hour then.
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Old Yesterday, 17:23
scorpionatthepc
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You don't get working tax credits if you're single and earning £7.20 an hour
This is my point so your not better off at all.
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Old Yesterday, 18:08
1manonthebog
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There is a new problem developing now as the NMW increases and one that I am hit with and I'm sure many others and that problem is in some semi-skilled jobs employers haven't been giving raises over the years and now the NMW has caught up so we now face the predicament of having gone though X amount of training and being no better of than someone stacking shelves in a supermarket and in the likes of Lidl they are better off as they pay the living wage.
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Old Yesterday, 19:25
LakieLady
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There is a new problem developing now as the NMW increases and one that I am hit with and I'm sure many others and that problem is in some semi-skilled jobs employers haven't been giving raises over the years and now the NMW has caught up so we now face the predicament of having gone though X amount of training and being no better of than someone stacking shelves in a supermarket and in the likes of Lidl they are better off as they pay the living wage.
I agree it's a problem.

I've been in my post for 10 years this year. When I started, I was on 2.5-3 x min wage. We've only had 2 pay rises in that time, both of 1%, and my hourly rate is now about 1.8 x min wage.

I'm starting to wonder why I do a stressful, challenging and difficult job when I wouldn't be a lot worse off if I was on a supermarket checkout.
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Old Yesterday, 23:22
Brian The Dog
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I would say housing is the problem in the uk, Home ownership in England at lowest level in 30 years as housing crisis grows. People dont choose not to just buy a house, the biggest increase that has been seen is people living in private rental sector which gives then no security at all. When like this week the government says it will help with the price of starter homes, which start at prices from £ 250,000 to £450,000 would you even get a mortgage on these if you are on NMW or what the government now call the living wage. Also average house prices in England are £217,000
It is true that accommodation is a problem whether buying or renting.

We have a teenager at work and he is only contracted to work 4 hours on a Saturday. However, for the last many months, he has been raking many hours of overtime and working 2 jobs. He was attempting to move into his first rented place away from parents but just this week, all the overtime has been cut and he is back to just 4 hours week. He simply can't rent a place on that. It's like a zero hour contract but slightly better as they take everyone on as a part timer and use you like hell when they want but drop you like a hot brick when they don't stating "Well that is your contract!".
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Old Yesterday, 23:34
1Mickey
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There is a new problem developing now as the NMW increases and one that I am hit with and I'm sure many others and that problem is in some semi-skilled jobs employers haven't been giving raises over the years and now the NMW has caught up so we now face the predicament of having gone though X amount of training and being no better of than someone stacking shelves in a supermarket and in the likes of Lidl they are better off as they pay the living wage.
Except for the fact the person in that predicament probably still earns more per year because they're normally guaranteed more hours than your average supermarket worker.
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Old Yesterday, 23:49
Mesostim
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Yes indeed: I'm single, own my own house completely and don't have any children. So no extra hand-outs for my life choices for me.

I knew I did life all wrong. I should have dropped out kids all over the place and lived in rented accommodation all my life and been grabbing every hand-out I could get.

I get no rewards for not being a burden on the state. You can see why others freely chose a different path in life.
You own your own house so you're whinging you can;t get housing benefit... seriously? First world problem
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Old Today, 03:24
david16
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£55 a week, WTC, on £220? Where do you live? If you go on the gov.co.uk website, and enter the correct details, no way are you entitled to this amount.
The only reason the government brought in this so called living wage was to remove WTC top ups on top of an inadequate wage and replace it with a much reduced topup benefit..

You get a bit more on the new so called living wave (which is the value the minimum wage would have been anyway had living wage not replaced it), but you get a lot less in top ups than you did before. The living wage is still inadequate, so many are significantly worse off now. And you may still have to pay more rent and council tax anyway.

And the solution of finding full time employment to make up for now getting less money from the same job as you did before due to savage benefit top up cuts is far from a straight forward one. And people did not just go for part time employment in the knowledge they would get a juicy amount WTC's. The job they got with part time hours was probably all there was without any thought of WTC's being paid on top of their wage.
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