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Has any improvement in worker's rights, pay or conditions ever cost jobs? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Has any improvement in worker's rights, pay or conditions ever cost jobs?
It seems that every time someone fights to improve the lot of workers, there is always someone, (normally a rich person) who says it will be bad for the country and cost jobs.
But from what I've seen things have only improved and people have always been employed. If anything it was the Tories in the 80s taking away rights and manufacturing that cost this country jobs. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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It must have cost jobs - here at least, because whilst we all like the improved rights, the better conditions and the wage rises, as consumers we don't like paying for stuff and will gladly buy anything if it's cheap enough without a second thought for the rights, conditions and wages of the poor sods in far off lands who now make the stuff we no longer produce.
Our desire for things hasn't gone, but our desire to pay for them flew south for the winter and never came home again years ago. The longest queues at the tills in our city centre are consistently found in our growing number of pound shops. Somehow I doubt ours is a unique city centre in that regard. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
It seems that every time someone fights to improve the lot of workers, there is always someone, (normally a rich person) who says it will be bad for the country and cost jobs.
But from what I've seen things have only improved and people have always been employed. Quote:
If anything it was the Tories in the 80s taking away rights and manufacturing that cost this country jobs.
And what of Blair/Brown - manufacturing jobs were lost at 5 times the rate under Blair/Brown. Not only that but even discounting the credit crunch manufacturing GDP was stagnant under the Blair/Brown years and increased by 20% during the Thatcher/Major years.If anything has cost jobs - it is the failure of British business to adapt to changing market conditions. This was particularly a problem when they were nationalised. We now have a record number of people employed in this country, and many of the nationalised industries are in private hands. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97,109
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Quote:
It seems that every time someone fights to improve the lot of workers, there is always someone, (normally a rich person) who says it will be bad for the country and cost jobs.
But from what I've seen things have only improved and people have always been employed. If anything it was the Tories in the 80s taking away rights and manufacturing that cost this country jobs. Brexit will allow the UK to halve net migration, a major study finds today. The cut will provide a long-term boost to wages and help ease the national housing crisis, say Cambridge University researchers. Any negative impact on growth will only be tiny and would probably have happened even without a vote to leave, their report reveals. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mongering.html |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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"Capitalists" and "Socialists" should recognise that they want the same thing and that the obsessions of the other are both necessary.
A good work-life balance, job stability, quality public services and a disposable income. In what way is that a problem for capitalism? And if a business is making good profits and it's executives paid millions how does that negatively affect any individual person? |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Yes thousands if not millions of jobs...
Just to clarify why is the far east manufacturing the bulk of the world goods? |
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#7 |
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Quote:
And if a business is making good profits and it's executives paid millions how does that negatively affect any individual person? I just think the lowest paid should have a decent living. |
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#8 |
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Yes thousands if not millions of jobs...
Just to clarify why is the far east manufacturing the bulk of the world goods? We shouldn't be racing to the bottom. And those jobs are obviously not necessary to our economy as we are doing well even without them. |
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#9 |
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The trend has been to outsource jobs overseas where labour is cheaper and to import 'cheaper' workers.
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#10 |
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The trend has been to outsource jobs overseas where labour is cheaper and to import 'cheaper' workers.
So it is not because of rights that those jobs have been lost it is because of greedy uncaring employers. |
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#11 |
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The trend has been to outsource jobs overseas where labour is cheaper and to import 'cheaper' workers.
It's to flood the market with a commodity which drives the price down. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Quote:
It seems that every time someone fights to improve the lot of workers, there is always someone, (normally a rich person) who says it will be bad for the country and cost jobs.
But from what I've seen things have only improved and people have always been employed. If anything it was the Tories in the 80s taking away rights and manufacturing that cost this country jobs. We now have machines run by computers. Three D printers doing what was done by plastic molders. I could go on and on. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Which is about taking away worker's rights and paying less.
So it is not because of rights that those jobs have been lost it is because of greedy uncaring employers. You are also ignoring the impact of consumers who as a rule buy based on price and not the country of origin or much else while lumping all the blame on employers for the loss of jobs. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Quote:
Which is about taking away worker's rights and paying less.
So it is not because of rights that those jobs have been lost it is because of greedy uncaring employers. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Banning children from being chimney sweeps cost jobs
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
It seems that every time someone fights to improve the lot of workers, there is always someone, (normally a rich person) who says it will be bad for the country and cost jobs.
But from what I've seen things have only improved and people have always been employed. If anything it was the Tories in the 80s taking away rights and manufacturing that cost this country jobs. No . destroying the miitant unions, that were striking, continually, to take leach other's worker's money, was the necessary precondition of climbing from economic failure to success. Britain was collapsing by the 1970s. And manufacturing industry was already a historical anachonism. The Germans , Japanese, and South Koreans do it far better - with better educated,and skilled workers , better management, better design, less disruptive unions, and a far stronger work ethic. The developing world does it far more cheaply - with lower wage rates, masses of employable labour , lower taxes and no benefits culture. And there was no way that British coal or steel production could possibly compete - with more readily available resources, cheaper energy costs, and miners not led by revolutionary marxists. Propping up those dead industries, would have just made anything else made from their products too expensive to sell too, and crippled the economy- subsidising people to effectively do nothing worthwhile. |
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#17 |
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Every piece of new machinery that needs less bodies to man it cost jobs.
We now have machines run by computers. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Importing workers by its very nature will tend to put downward pressure on wages, I'm not sure what workers' rights you are saying have been taken away.
You are also ignoring the impact of consumers who as a rule buy based on price and not the country of origin or much else while lumping all the blame on employers for the loss of jobs. But it would make no difference to wages, or unemployment in Blackpool, Scunthorpe or Newcastle - because those people effectively exist in another economy - they won't move from, and many don't possess the skills to be waiters. . But the macro economic consequences of there being fewer waiters in London is that there's less spending in restaurants - or a meal takes longer. That means less money spent, or longer lunch hours, less growth, less tax. And that means less spending and employment - which means lower wages, not higher. Same if you didn't have Bulgarian farm workers, Polish plumbers. or Pakistani brain surgeons - the jobs just wouldn't get done. |
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#19 |
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Because they pay way less and they have poor conditions.
We shouldn't be racing to the bottom. And those jobs are obviously not necessary to our economy as we are doing well even without them. I am struck by two recent cases seen on the roads locally - the van advertising the owners profession as an equine artist, and another belonging ot the polo farm. Both jobs require enough people, with enough money, to have a horse, and to buy their services for it - neither probably existed 20 or 10 years ago. What pays for them - well the B Gas man now has two horses, the area has become an commuting option for London with a high speed train link, and the local area now has 40,000 students bringing in probably 700 million a year . The problem is where there's no one doing well, and spawning off demand for new services, or supporting businesses, and no external source of high paid jobs, or extra spending. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Quote:
We also have created a whole new range of service jobs that exist because enough people have enough money to buy them . And the people in those jobs now earn enough to pay others.
I am struck by two recent cases seen on the roads locally - the van advertising the owners profession as an equine artist, and another belonging ot the polo farm. Both jobs require enough people, with enough money, to have a horse, and to buy their services for it - neither probably existed 20 or 10 years ago. What pays for them - well the B Gas man now has two horses, the area has become an commuting option for London with a high speed train link, and the local area now has 40,000 students bringing in probably 700 million a year . The problem is where there's no one doing well, and spawning off demand for new services, or supporting businesses, and no external source of high paid jobs, or extra spending. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,171
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Debatable. One could argue that less jobs may have been created - but I think it might be difficult to prove.
And what of Blair/Brown - manufacturing jobs were lost at 5 times the rate under Blair/Brown. Not only that but even discounting the credit crunch manufacturing GDP was stagnant under the Blair/Brown years and increased by 20% during the Thatcher/Major years. If anything has cost jobs - it is the failure of British business to adapt to changing market conditions. This was particularly a problem when they were nationalised. We now have a record number of people employed in this country, and many of the nationalised industries are in private hands. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Obviously The only way you can have higher wages is to improve productivity...
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#23 |
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Or distribute profits more equally. We are in a situation where many companies make hundreds of millions of pounds in profit annually whilst wages have gone down in real terms and workers' rights and in-work benefits have been stripped away.
If that means prices go up then so be it. Eventually they'll even out but we need to pay the price for allowing people in 3rd world countries to be abused for our cheap imports. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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The problem is where there's no one doing well, and spawning off demand for new services, or supporting businesses, and no external source of high paid jobs, or extra spending.
Then when I go back to see family in the North East, I see a part of the country with an unemployment rate of over 8% and those in jobs are in low pay positions or working in the public sector. The local population is 99% white British and they voted to leave the EU. |
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