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What does the call to unity actually mean?


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Old Yesterday, 10:39
jmclaugh
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Diddly squat on here.
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Old Yesterday, 10:41
Dotheboyshall
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It's used when a call to patriotism would get you laughed out of the room.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22
wizzywick
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We can never have unity where politics are concerned. There will always be those in favour of the EU, those against. Those who vote Tory, those who don't. There will be LibDem supporters and LibDem bashers. There will be those who want Scottish independence and those who don't.

To curtail the right to believe in the political ideal of your choosing is anti-democratic.

I however, do not ever disrespect anyone for voting for or believing in their preference.I have never ever fallen out with anybody over their political choices and I have friends and family who are of differing opinions to myself. I just respect them, love them for who they are and get on with my life. That is what I believe is meant by Unity. It's about being mature.
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Old Yesterday, 12:15
tim59
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We can never have unity where politics are concerned. There will always be those in favour of the EU, those against. Those who vote Tory, those who don't. There will be LibDem supporters and LibDem bashers. There will be those who want Scottish independence and those who don't.

To curtail the right to believe in the political ideal of your choosing is anti-democratic.

I however, do not ever disrespect anyone for voting for or believing in their preference.I have never ever fallen out with anybody over their political choices and I have friends and family who are of differing opinions to myself. I just respect them, love them for who they are and get on with my life. That is what I believe is meant by Unity. It's about being mature.
This i agree with
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Old Yesterday, 12:49
DianaFire
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It means if we're all on the same side, no need to ask awkward questions, like what the objective is. Or the plan. Or the principles. Or what resources or expertise are required. It means that Mrs May wants to shut people up and shove through whatever Brexit is possible before the next GE. Probably.
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Old Yesterday, 12:56
Aurora13
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It means if we're all on the same side, no need to ask awkward questions, like what the objective is. Or the plan. Or the principles. Or what resources or expertise are required. It means that Mrs May wants to shut people up and shove through whatever Brexit is possible before the next GE. Probably.
Succinct.
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Old Yesterday, 13:02
Dotheboyshall
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It means 'do as I say'
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Old Yesterday, 13:43
Doctor_Wibble
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I however, do not ever disrespect anyone for voting for or believing in their preference.I have never ever fallen out with anybody over their political choices and I have friends and family who are of differing opinions to myself. I just respect them, love them for who they are and get on with my life. That is what I believe is meant by Unity. It's about being mature.
This I think is a nice short clear description of what it's about - or at least is very close to my understanding of what May was trying to say.

People can disagree about political things and still be friends, and can even converse in civil tones on other matters without feeling the need to wave any blunt instruments about.
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Old Yesterday, 14:01
i4u
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This I think is a nice short clear description of what it's about - or at least is very close to my understanding of what May was trying to say.

People can disagree about political things and still be friends, and can even converse in civil tones on other matters without feeling the need to wave any blunt instruments about.
Yet in answer to House of Commons questions about the EU it is Mrs May who time and again attempts to divide & rule by turning Brexit into a party issue, when she herself as a Tory campaigned to Remain in the EU.

I suspect her call for unity has to do with her own party more than the wider public.
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Old Yesterday, 14:04
Doctor_Wibble
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Yet in answer to House of Commons questions about the EU it is Mrs May who time and again attempts to divide & rule by turning Brexit into a party issue, when she herself as a Tory campaigned to Remain in the EU.
I'm reasonably sure her 'call to unity' was to the general public, unless they played a video of it in parliament too?

I suspect her call for unity has to do with her own party more than the wider public.
Of course you do, I would expect nothing more.
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Old Yesterday, 14:28
wizzywick
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Yet in answer to House of Commons questions about the EU it is Mrs May who time and again attempts to divide & rule by turning Brexit into a party issue, when she herself as a Tory campaigned to Remain in the EU.

I suspect her call for unity has to do with her own party more than the wider public.
One of the consistencies about Parliament is that political parties always make everything party issues. MP's exist mainly because of their party and therefore party loyalty will always be the main concern of those elected to be in power. After all, the public elect "parties" not people. It was exactly the same when Labour were in power, and if Labour were in power now, they'd be doing exactly the same as the Tories.

And, the Tories, despite a few rebels, are more united over Brexit than other parties except for the LibDems and the SNP and of course UKIP!
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Old Yesterday, 14:36
moox
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It's the politician version of "we won, you lost, get over it". It will create about as much unity as there is with the conflict in Palestine/Israel
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Old Yesterday, 14:45
wizzywick
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It's the politician version of "we won, you lost, get over it". It will create about as much unity as there is with the conflict in Palestine/Israel
In the real world, I notice that people are just busy getting along with each other and their lives. The media love the "everyone hates each other" mantra. But it really doesn't exist. except on Digital Spy where people like yourself call Leave voters idiots because you fail to grasp that their mindset is different to yours. Your mindset and theirs are equally as valid and correct as each other. I have never called a person who voted remain an idiot because it is their right to do so.
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Old Yesterday, 15:02
moox
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In the real world, I notice that people are just busy getting along with each other and their lives. The media love the "everyone hates each other" mantra. But it really doesn't exist. except on Digital Spy where people like yourself call Leave voters idiots because you fail to grasp that their mindset is different to yours. Your mindset and theirs are equally as valid and correct as each other. I have never called a person who voted remain an idiot because it is their right to do so.
I fully grasp that their mindset is different. I am questioning whether that mindset makes any sense, especially when leave voters tend to shy away from listening to fact, logic or reason.

They aren't "equally as valid" given that, once you inject the facts into the debate, one side is objectively worse for the country than the other. Telling me to "stop talking the country" down is not a rebuttal.

Maybe you don't call people remoaners, but many leavers do.
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Old Yesterday, 15:12
Doctor_Wibble
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I fully grasp that their mindset is different.
That's all that needed to be said, and stopping there would have been in the spirit of diplomacy, non-hostility, non-judgemental etc that would work with this 'call to unity' which I think would be better phrased as a 'call to return to civility'.
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Old Yesterday, 15:14
moox
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That's all that needed to be said, and stopping there would have been in the spirit of diplomacy, non-hostility, non-judgemental etc that would work with this 'call to unity' which I think would be better phrased as a 'call to return to civility'.
Not going to happen when we're going to spend decades going backwards before moving forwards an inch for no good reason at all.

This isn't a football game. It's the future of the country, and I want to call people idiots because they want to put xenophobia and lies above reality and fact, then I will do so.
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Old Yesterday, 15:25
wizzywick
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I fully grasp that their mindset is different. I am questioning whether that mindset makes any sense, especially when leave voters tend to shy away from listening to fact, logic or reason.

They aren't "equally as valid" given that, once you inject the facts into the debate, one side is objectively worse for the country than the other. Telling me to "stop talking the country" down is not a rebuttal.

Maybe you don't call people remoaners, but many leavers do.
Well the facts I used to make my decision come from EU documentation such as The Five Presidents Report, statements of UK VAT Payments to the EU, a schedule of policies that were due to be debated by the EU, their handling of the migrant crisis, the unfair treatment of countries like Greece by the big boys especially Germany, the way wealth is not spread evenly across the EU which means the poorer eastern Countries rely on the bigger ones to survive whereas the larger ones have to burden an ever growing influx of people from these countries because the way the EU operates is discriminative. But of course, feel free to dismiss my reasonings as nonsense because Remainers like to think they are morally superior. And, of course, a Brexiters mindset is as valid as yours because they have a different vision to how they want their country to progress. Most people who voted leave knew it would be a rocky road before we reached the final destination. It is Remainers who keep chopping down trees to block that rocky road in a hope the road will be blocked permanently.
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Old Yesterday, 15:36
Blairdennon
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Not going to happen when we're going to spend decades going backwards before moving forwards an inch for no good reason at all.

This isn't a football game. It's the future of the country, and I want to call people idiots because they want to put xenophobia and lies above reality and fact, then I will do so.
It is all opinion but I feel a certain antipathy to those who would see the power of my vote diluted to an EU bureaucracy so that their business can benefit. It is not just the future of the country it is the future of the democratic foundation upon which our country exists.
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Old Yesterday, 15:58
i4u
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It is all opinion but I feel a certain antipathy to those who would see the power of my vote diluted to an EU bureaucracy so that their business can benefit. It is not just the future of the country it is the future of the democratic foundation upon which our country exists.
What utter nonsense...judges are asked to rule on the legality of the process the government have chosen and were declared "enemies of the public" shock horror one of them was gay.

The reaction of Leave campaigners shows democracy was just a sound bite with which some people could chomp away at. Some of the biggest backers of Brexit are hedge funds, because the EU dared to regulate them

The regulation leave campaigners tend to point to getting rid of is the working time directive and its presented as freeing workers from EU restrictions. When it is more likely businesses will be given the freedom to say to someone you will longer and 7 days a week and forget about overtime.

I thought Brexit was all about opportunities for business. We've been here before with Margaret Thatcher and the claimed 'trickle down' which resulted in major industrial disputes, descimated industries, the right to buy leading to a shortage of social housing.

I suspect the people the who'll make the most of Brexit, whatever it means, will be the Remain voters and the political elite.
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Old Yesterday, 16:11
Aurora13
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What utter nonsense...judges are asked to rule on the legality of the process the government have chosen and were declared "enemies of the public" shock horror one of them was gay.

The reaction of Leave campaigners shows democracy was just a sound bite with which some people could chomp away at. Some of the biggest backers of Brexit are hedge funds, because the EU dared to regulate them

The regulation leave campaigners tend to point to getting rid of is the working time directive and its presented as freeing workers from EU restrictions. When it is more likely businesses will be given the freedom to say to someone you will longer and 7 days a week and forget about overtime.

I thought Brexit was all about opportunities for business. We've been here before with Margaret Thatcher and the claimed 'trickle down' which resulted in major industrial disputes, descimated industries, the right to buy leading to a shortage of social housing.

I suspect the people the who'll make the most of Brexit, whatever it means, will be the Remain voters and the political elite.
Why did Next chief support Brexit? To get lesser employment regs. He's up in arms now as he is worried about less foreign workers. Same with Costa and employment regs. Been in today and manageress said they have changed their blueberry muffin. By change it means smaller and less blueberries! Not sure the boss planned for pound plummeting and resultant rising input costs! This shrinkflation is everywhere. Folks are going to cotton on in their numbers soon!
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Old Yesterday, 16:17
i4u
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One of the consistencies about Parliament is that political parties always make everything party issues. MP's exist mainly because of their party and therefore party loyalty will always be the main concern of those elected to be in power. After all, the public elect "parties" not people. It was exactly the same when Labour were in power, and if Labour were in power now, they'd be doing exactly the same as the Tories.

And, the Tories, despite a few rebels, are more united over Brexit than other parties except for the LibDems and the SNP and of course UKIP!
But the referendum was cross party and it was repeatedly said Vote Leave was not a political party. So many Conservative voters may well have voted remain, the current party in power stood and was elected on a mandate of staying in the Single Market.

I don't know why you think the Tories are more united over Brexit than other parties when you see the Chancellor complaining about attacks from fellow Cabinet members.
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Old Yesterday, 16:17
Blairdennon
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What utter nonsense...judges are asked to rule on the legality of the process the government have chosen and were declared "enemies of the public" shock horror one of them was gay.

The reaction of Leave campaigners shows democracy was just a sound bite with which some people could chomp away at. Some of the biggest backers of Brexit are hedge funds, because the EU dared to regulate them

The regulation leave campaigners tend to point to getting rid of is the working time directive and its presented as freeing workers from EU restrictions. When it is more likely businesses will be given the freedom to say to someone you will longer and 7 days a week and forget about overtime.

I thought Brexit was all about opportunities for business. We've been here before with Margaret Thatcher and the claimed 'trickle down' which resulted in major industrial disputes, descimated industries, the right to buy leading to a shortage of social housing.

I suspect the people the who'll make the most of Brexit, whatever it means, will be the Remain voters and the political elite.
I thought everyone agreed that the reasons individuals voted the way they did was down to a myriad of reasons. Securing my vote to keep meaning something, if currently not very much, was mine. The fact that others may have selfish reasons to vote Brexit means as little as those who voted Remain have selfish reasons. The only difference being, in my opinion, that a selfish vote to Remain would dilute my democratic vote even further. A selfish vote to leave would protect my vote.
The people who will make the most of Brexit will be those whose democratic future has a better chance of survival so realistically all British citizens.
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Old Yesterday, 16:20
thenetworkbabe
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As a remainer I am a little mystified as to what I am supposed to do as part of the 'call to unity' post Brexit.

If we'd had a national referendum on hanging, and it was to be reintroduced, would I be expected to stop fighting for what I believe to be right? Surely I would continue trying to persuade people they had made a mistake?

It's all very well for politicians to feel they are bound by a majority referendum - but what it's supposed to mean for me I've no idea. Surely the fight has to go on.
Moderate Remainers logically have to move to a position that says, I know this is truly dumb choice , but its a democracy, and a majority of the people have made a dumb choice , so we have to live with it. Politically, we now have to get the best economic deal we can , while meeting the core demands, of the majority, of Leave voters.

That means immigration control, even if meaningless in final form, has to be national - and a red line - that , in turn, sets the economic possibilities.

Politically, the alternative now, is a dysfunctional political system which can't produce any government, with facists on the rise. The problem is that the last democratic vote is time limited - by the oncoming death of the Leave generations . But, realistically, that means reviewing the vote only when enough of them are dead, or repenting being mislead. Thats not going to happen before Match or 2019.

The quid pro quo is that moderate Leavers have to accept that they were lied to, consistently, and that most of what they were offered was complte nonsense. They then need to accept the actions on what they voted for that are possible ,not suicidal to whole industries or the NHS, or growth, or racist. . They need to accept somethings they don't like - to secure the economy as much as possible, and meet threats to our security. .

The danger is if the remain extremists just bring brexit to a legal halt, the Lords vote against it, and the other political parties start suggesting the impossible is possible - so they can attack the government for failing to make 2 and 2 equal 7. On the other side the 3 amigos are going to have to go to leave voters, and say this is the best we could get, blame the Europeans for not getting what they promised. The problem will be how many Leave voters accept that, and how many go off into a sulk . voting UKIP, demanding that 2 and 2 equal 7, and questioning why all those immigrants who have arrived since 1500 haven't gone.
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Old Yesterday, 16:47
droogiefret
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Moderate Remainers logically have to move to a position that says, I know this is truly dumb choice , but its a democracy, and a majority of the people have made a dumb choice , so we have to live with it. Politically, we now have to get the best economic deal we can , while meeting the core demands, of the majority, of Leave voters.

That means immigration control, even if meaningless in final form, has to be national - and a red line - that , in turn, sets the economic possibilities.

Politically, the alternative now, is a dysfunctional political system which can't produce any government, with facists on the rise. The problem is that the last democratic vote is time limited - by the oncoming death of the Leave generations . But, realistically, that means reviewing the vote only when enough of them are dead, or repenting being mislead. Thats not going to happen before Match or 2019.

The quid pro quo is that moderate Leavers have to accept that they were lied to, consistently, and that most of what they were offered was complte nonsense. They then need to accept the actions on what they voted for that are possible ,not suicidal to whole industries or the NHS, or growth, or racist. . They need to accept somethings they don't like - to secure the economy as much as possible, and meet threats to our security. .

The danger is if the remain extremists just bring brexit to a legal halt, the Lords vote against it, and the other political parties start suggesting the impossible is possible - so they can attack the government for failing to make 2 and 2 equal 7. On the other side the 3 amigos are going to have to go to leave voters, and say this is the best we could get, blame the Europeans for not getting what they promised. The problem will be how many Leave voters accept that, and how many go off into a sulk . voting UKIP, demanding that 2 and 2 equal 7, and questioning why all those immigrants who have arrived since 1500 haven't gone.
I appreciate your thoughts and analysis - but can we just test one?

You say we need immigration control as a red line - but I am convinced that the danger of Brexit is less unskilled labour coming into the country and more, cheaper, skilled labour.

Logic tells me that that will do nothing to encourage investment in homegrown skills. Rather, it will result in more skilled jobs going to cheaper imported labour while our own young are forced into the low paid unskilled hole left by the 'red line immigration control'. How can I stand by and just let that happen?
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Old Yesterday, 17:30
Thor_Noggsson
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I appreciate your thoughts and analysis - but can we just test one?

You say we need immigration control as a red line - but I am convinced that the danger of Brexit is less unskilled labour coming into the country and more, cheaper, skilled labour.

Logic tells me that that will do nothing to encourage investment in homegrown skills. Rather, it will result in more skilled jobs going to cheaper imported labour while our own young are forced into the low paid unskilled hole left by the 'red line immigration control'. How can I stand by and just let that happen?
Relistically what can you do to stop it happening.
I see no way anyone on here can influence anything about the brexit process.
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