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What does the call to unity actually mean? |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,480
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Relistically what can you do to stop it happening.
I see no way anyone on here can influence anything about the brexit process. 100%. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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But the referendum was cross party and it was repeatedly said Vote Leave was not a political party. So many Conservative voters may well have voted remain, the current party in power stood and was elected on a mandate of staying in the Single Market.
I don't know why you think the Tories are more united over Brexit than other parties when you see the Chancellor complaining about attacks from fellow Cabinet members. Vince has just opted out of the Liberals line. But they are otherwise united behind saying anything, however ridiculous, or anti-democratic, that wins them another seat or two. The SNP are united in pushing the idea that the dastardly Tories are ignoring Scotland again - which will keep them in power for ever , talking about a second referendum they are afraid of. The Conservatives can unite behind immigration controls - and that will resolve their economic divide - as the Europeans will decide the options left afterwards. |
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#53 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North London
Posts: 15,448
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"Unity means unity, are we're going to make a success of it"
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#54 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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I appreciate your thoughts and analysis - but can we just test one?
You say we need immigration control as a red line - but I am convinced that the danger of Brexit is less unskilled labour coming into the country and more, cheaper, skilled labour. Logic tells me that that will do nothing to encourage investment in homegrown skills. Rather, it will result in more skilled jobs going to cheaper imported labour while our own young are forced into the low paid unskilled hole left by the 'red line immigration control'. How can I stand by and just let that happen? You are probably right that we could train more ourselves - but thats what increasing apprenticeships, and trying to produce academic schools in areas with little academic attainment is meant to be about. Beyond that, it gets more difficult - the vacancy is now, the surgeon that will be available in a decade can't fill it.To take the extreme, doctors, example, the BMA doesn't want a lot more doctors qualifying, and competing for private practice, and the government is facing a spending hole with the NHS, and can't find more for training more doctors. Its no wonder that importing experienced ones, looks a better option. There's also a cost of going national, when the pool of talent is small. . if we employed more of our most able science graduates as doctors - who would we employ in all the jobs they do now? There's a finite number of people who can do sciences, to a decent, A level, level or beyond.. At some point too , you are left with a regional, and basic skills problem. Where the economy is doing well, the labour force has already been used up, and many people have invented new , better, jobs for themselves to use the available money There the immigrants do the jobs no one else can do. The S Eastern train is cleaned by East Europeans - because the alternative is no one else will clean it, or get up in time for the first train. In farming, the immigrants tend to come from countries where agrarian skills are still common - the unemployed here are not skilled, in the right areas, mobile, or willing to man the fields of East Anglia or Kent, in the rain. There's also a basic level of ability required for many jobs - in a service economy with a high tech sector. That is going to make life difficult for the bottom of the attainment pool. In effect we have been stealing from the top 30% of Europe's top attainment range, to do jobs that need someone in the top 60% to do. The bottom 40% here didn't qualify anyway, and as a consumer I am better off if the person is very competent, not marginally so. You could replace the Polish plumber with more British ones , but if my last two - who required 5 other plumber visits to undo what they did wrong - or todays half installed satellite dish - is typical, we are already employing locals who shouldn't get the jobs. I can see it would be nice to employ the locals, and pay them more , but actually i prefer someone who causes me less hastle, wherever they come from. . |
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#55 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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"Unity means unity, are we're going to make a success of it"
We're doomed, Doomed I tell ye. The dumb voters have sunk us. The country is torn down the middle, disunited and potentially coming to blows. There's no way out. I will try and do the best I can to save anything i can , but I can promise nothing. Yours Theresa.. Or Cameron's final notes on brexit. . Parlaiment - dvided. Party divided. Lords obstructive. UKIP waiting, Cards - all with Europe. Need to give idiots a role in negotiations. Immigration control - politically necessary, but immigration vital, Economy without single market - kaput. Spending plans -Kaput. NHS collapse - unavoidable. Result something bad, and/or early death from stress. Suggested action - bolt. |
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