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Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?


View Poll Results: Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?
Yes 49 57.65%
No 24 28.24%
Not Bothered 12 14.12%
Voters: 85. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old Yesterday, 11:45
RecordPlayer
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Southern Trains management say they want to introduce driver only trains for the benefit of customers.

But IMO they really want to do it to decrease costs and there is not only no benefit to driver only trains but things are worse without a guard on the train.

A driver should concentrate on driving the train and not be distracted by having to open and close doors or worry about trouble in the carriages.
While a guard can collect tickets, look out for passengers causing trouble, or for lost or dangerous luggage left and can get off the train at stations to make sure that closing the doors is safe to do.

This is so obviously a cost saving measure and nothing to do with the customers.
We were passengers once. How times have changed.

I would avoid getting on any train without a guard.
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Old Yesterday, 11:53
RecordPlayer
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When the driver is is in the driver's cab he is not in any contact with passengers who are in passenger coaches and cannot be distracted by their behaviour.

If a riot breaks out amongst passengers then all a passenger has to do is press the emergency button. What more could a guard do than that?
I can see a lot of stop -start going on for needless incidents.

What if they are unable to press the emergency button? At least a guard makes the rounds by going through carriages or someone can fetch him without the need to press the emergency handle.
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Old Yesterday, 11:55
clinch
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How does not having a guard affect workers rights? If there is nobody there then they can't be "abused".

Actually, in most cases this isn't about reducing staff but redefining roles. You still need someone on board to check tickets and provide custom services but they don't necessarily need to be legally responsible for the doors.
So what is the benefit of that? Have the same bloke checking a ticket but not checking to see whether someone is making a lunge for the door as the train pulls away.
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Old Yesterday, 12:01
moox
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What of the other lines which do not have guards?
GWR Thames Valley services don't (the services that use turbo trains), but all intercity services do

Never thought it was a huge safety problem really. Though the bigger stations do still have platform staff to dispatch the train.
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Old Yesterday, 12:07
platelet
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So what is the benefit of that?
When the "guards" that don't control the doors go on strike, the trains can still run
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Old Yesterday, 12:09
RecordPlayer
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So what is the benefit of that? Have the same bloke checking a ticket but not checking to see whether someone is making a lunge for the door as the train pulls away.
Are we discussing two separate roles here - conductors and guards - or are they one and the same?
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Old Yesterday, 12:12
jmclaugh
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So what is the benefit of that? Have the same bloke checking a ticket but not checking to see whether someone is making a lunge for the door as the train pulls away.
Afaik passengers can no longer open doors once they're closed and the train is in motion so no point lunging for the door.
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Old Yesterday, 13:01
Peter_Gibbins
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Whether they're called 'guards' or 'customer service assistants' I think on mainline train services there should be another member of staff other than the driver, to assist with customer issues etc, keep an eye on anti social behaviour, and be able to help if an incident arose.
except on commuter services on my line, there are 12 carriages each service, every carriage is rammed before the last "stopping" station ahead of London, and there's almost no way for the guard to get through from the first carriage to the last carriage to assist in an urgent incident (i.e. a fight breaking out etc) so their role is virtually meaningless!

that said, in the event of a train failure, the guard's role is to carry out initial investigations whilst the driver remains in the cab trying to restart the train - it's a bit hard for the driver to keep running from coach 1 to coach 12 to resolve a stuck door, and then check whether the train is safe to drive again - that is their key role, it's not about "passenger assistance" on mainline commuter services, it's more about ensuring that any faults found during transit can be investigated and rectified asap, which reduces the liability on the TOC for late arrival at their end destination

the whole role of the "guard" right now is basically around reducing the risk to the TOC for penalties from the rail regulator for late running services - any tasks they do above this role are "by-products" of their place on the train but their key role, to the operator, is not passenger assistance but more "driver/TOC assistance" when faults arise
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Old Yesterday, 13:07
jcafcw
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I spent a week in Copenhagen a week before Christmas and I was impressed by the way the trains were run - much better than our system.

For a start there were no ticket barriers anywhere which helped people depart quicker. I did get my ticket checked regularly however and these checkers also acted as guards in the stations for the intercity type routes and some suburban routes.

Maybe it would be more cost effective to combine jobs and get rid of the ticket barriers which have a habit of breaking down, not reading tickets and can be climbed over at unmanned stations.

It would be a good idea to have a presence on board to cut down on anti-social behaviour.
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Old Yesterday, 13:08
OLD HIPPY GUY
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There are many things I don't use, but I still care about worker's rights and that companies don't abuse workers, such as Sports Direct which I have never used and never will.
Of course I care about workers rights I'm a socialist, but the question was "do you care if there is a guard on the trains?" and I don't, because I don't use them, however, had the question been, "do you think that guards on trains should be sacked?" then obviously my answer would have been "yes of course I care"
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Old Yesterday, 13:14
Mark39London
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Not had guards on my local train service into London for years (Great Northern, formally FCC). I don't see any need for them these days.

This is just the union refusing to allow change and playing politics in a damaging, non constructive way.
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Old Yesterday, 13:19
steeleuro_wolf
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Plenty of lines manage without them so I really don't see why they're needed. These are politically motivated strikes, nothing more.
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Old Yesterday, 13:24
koantemplation
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Plenty of lines manage without them so I really don't see why they're needed. These are politically motivated strikes, nothing more.
Yes because the Rail unions haven't learnt from the miners strike?
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Old Yesterday, 13:25
hansue
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In my view the strikes are political and they are using the fact that Southern Trains are useless to try and gain the sympathy of the passengers. Southern Trains have a dreadful record of not running on time so its easy to blame them for the strikes. As many have said there are lots of lines that don't have guards shutting the doors so why is this any different.

Perhaps the franchise should be taken away from Gouvia and either nationalise it temporarily or give it to a better operator. The ways things are going, this dispute is never going to end because the operators wont give in and the unions are determined that they are not going to agree any sort of deal.
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Old Yesterday, 13:28
moox
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Are we discussing two separate roles here - conductors and guards - or are they one and the same?
Around here the guards do typical guard duties, but can also check/sell tickets if there's time.

Then there are RPIs (revenue protection) who flit from one train to another, to try to catch fare evaders
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Old Yesterday, 13:30
LostFool
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Perhaps the franchise should be taken away from Gouvia and either nationalise it temporarily or give it to a better operator. The ways things are going, this dispute is never going to end because the operators wont give in and the unions are determined that they are not going to agree any sort of deal.
Makes you wonder why the rail Unions haven't put in a bid to run franchises if they think they know how it should be done. Of course it would mean that they would be striking against themselves...
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Old Yesterday, 13:33
hansue
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Makes you wonder why the rail Unions haven't put in a bid to run franchises if they think they know how it should be done. Of course it would mean that they would be striking against themselves...
Now that would be interesting
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Old Yesterday, 13:33
Annsyre
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I can see a lot of stop -start going on for needless incidents.

What if they are unable to press the emergency button? At least a guard makes the rounds by going through carriages or someone can fetch him without the need to press the emergency handle.
How many such incidents have happened in the past twenty years on all th trains that have no guards? Do you know? I can't remember any reported in the media.
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Old Yesterday, 13:46
1Mickey
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I don't often use trains these days but if the drivers feel its safer with guards then i'm more likely to take their word for it over a company that is just looking for ways to cut costs.
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Old Yesterday, 13:52
hansue
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I don't often use trains these days but if the drivers feel its safer with guards then i'm more likely to take their word for it over a company that is just looking for ways to cut costs.
What about the drivers that have been closing doors on other lines for years, why are the Southern Train drivers any different to them.
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Old Yesterday, 13:54
RecordPlayer
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How many such incidents have happened in the past twenty years on all th trains that have no guards? Do you know? I can't remember any reported in the media.
How do you know incidents don't happen? When I was younger men used to expose themselves to me on trains, but I never reported them because I was too embarrassed.

Better safe than sorry. What harm would there be if guards/ conductors were on trains?
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Old Yesterday, 13:55
Mark_Jones9
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I would prefer a guard on the train for safety reasons.

Depending on the length of the train it maybe less safe to have the driver alone responsible for ensuring the doors are closed safely.

Occasionally people rushing to catch a train fall between the train and platform as the train is pulling out or into the platform. It is not just closing the doors its entering and leaving the platform that requires someone watching just in case.

Passengers on the train may also benefit from the presence of a guard. Feel safer say travelling alone late at night.
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Old Yesterday, 14:01
Annsyre
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How do you know incidents don't happen? When I was younger men used to expose themselves to me on trains, but I never reported them because I was too embarrassed.

Better safe than sorry. What harm would there be if guards/ conductors were on trains?
If the guard was not in your carriage then how were you safer?


I know because I follow the news and I have not read of any such incidents. People travel on trains without guards every day and there have been no reported incidents that I know of.
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Old Yesterday, 14:18
Mark_Jones9
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If the guard was not in your carriage then how were you safer?


I know because I follow the news and I have not read of any such incidents. People travel on trains without guards every day and there have been no reported incidents that I know of.
As you follow the news I guess you must of read this.
Rail staffing cuts blamed for 'shocking' increase in passengers being attacked on Britain's trains

David Sidebottom, passenger director at the independent watchdog Transport Focus, said: “Although it is generally very safe to travel by train, passengers will be concerned by this increase in the number of assaults. They tell us that the best deterrent against crime is visible staff and a police presence both on trains and at stations.”

Mick Cash, general secretary of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT), said: “These are shocking figures and RMT is in no doubt that they are directly linked to the drive to axe staff from both stations and trains.” He added: “RMT warned repeatedly that sacking guards and removing platform staff would turn our railways into a criminals’ and yobbos’ paradise, and that’s what’s happened.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10416174.html
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Old Yesterday, 14:20
welwynrose
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How do you know incidents don't happen? When I was younger men used to expose themselves to me on trains, but I never reported them because I was too embarrassed.

Better safe than sorry. What harm would there be if guards/ conductors were on trains?
What good would a guard do on a crowded commuter train when they'd be stuck in one carriage
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