DS Forums

 
 

Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?


View Poll Results: Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?
Yes 50 57.47%
No 25 28.74%
Not Bothered 12 13.79%
Voters: 87. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Yesterday, 14:22
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
If the guard was not in your carriage then how were you safer?


I know because I follow the news and I have not read of any such incidents. People travel on trains without guards every day and there have been no reported incidents that I know of.
The knowledge that a guard is on the train is already a deterrent ( which I didn't take advantage of.) The worst type of trains were the ones with separate single carriages with doors either side. I hope they never reinstate them.

Hopefully, there won't be any incidents but I still can't see why a guard can't be on the train for safety reasons (when they arise) or if someone simply wants to query the guard about their destination times.
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old Yesterday, 14:23
Mark39London
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,847
What good would a guard do on a crowded commuter train when they'd be stuck in one carriage
Likely none whatsoever.

They would probably wait until the train stopped at the next station and request assistance then.

That's assuming that any guard ever became aware of a problem 4 carriages down from them.
Mark39London is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:34
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
deleted
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:35
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
Commuter train without guard travelled witth it's doors open.

http://www.cityam.com/253232/souther...lled-its-doors
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:43
1Mickey
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,076
What about the drivers that have been closing doors on other lines for years, why are the Southern Train drivers any different to them.
I can't say how others feel but having terms and conditions changed to ones you feel are dangerous is different to agreeing to them before you take the job.
1Mickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:47
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,670
Commuter train without guard travelled witth it's doors open.

http://www.cityam.com/253232/souther...lled-its-doors
Rail staff failed to notice ‘bomb’ on Southern Rail and Thameslink train

http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/04/rail-s...train-6359968/
LostFool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:52
spanna5
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 288
Commuter train without guard travelled witth it's doors open.

http://www.cityam.com/253232/souther...lled-its-doors
From the article ..... This was an unusually rare set of circumstances on a train that has run without a conductor for many years and could have happened even if there had been a guard on board.
spanna5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:57
Joan_Ferguson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
We were passengers once. How times have changed.

I would avoid getting on any train without a guard.
How would you know whether there was a conductor on the train before you travelled on it?

Would you stand on the platform awaiting their arrival and then question the person whether they were a guard or just a ticket examiner?

Many DOO trains run without a ticket examiner. Would you really refuse to travel because there wasn't a TE on board?
Joan_Ferguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:04
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
Rail staff failed to notice ‘bomb’ on Southern Rail and Thameslink train

http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/04/rail-s...train-6359968/
Hmmmm...

‘Our modernisation of Southern’s train service means there will be more people working on our trains, not fewer, and they’ll be able to give better customer service as well as looking for suspicious bags during journeys.
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:07
Clarisse76
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,141
There needs to be someone on the train to move along any bearded scrotes from Islington squatting in the doorways.
Clarisse76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:08
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
From the article ..... This was an unusually rare set of circumstances on a train that has run without a conductor for many years and could have happened even if there had been a guard on board.
"The driver released the brakes before the doors closed"

Where was the platform guard?
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:12
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
How would you know whether there was a conductor on the train before you travelled on it?

Would you stand on the platform awaiting their arrival and then question the person whether they were a guard or just a ticket examiner?

Many DOO trains run without a ticket examiner. Would you really refuse to travel because there wasn't a TE on board?
I always seem to get on trains where there are guards and conductors. ( except London tube)
Maybe, I travel on the wrong type of train.
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:13
koantemplation
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,648
Hmmmm...

‘Our modernisation of Southern’s train service means there will be more people working on our trains, not fewer, and they’ll be able to give better customer service as well as looking for suspicious bags during journeys.
In other words, they want to turn guards in to train 'flight' attendants that will try to make more money for the company by selling things from a trolley. and having them come off the train at every station to close the doors will just stop them selling for those few mins.
koantemplation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:14
Jayceef1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 3,026
I always seem to get on trains where there are guards and conductors. ( except London tube)
Maybe, I travel on the wrong type of train.
Nah, you're just the wrong type of passenger!
Jayceef1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:19
Gary Halliday
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 277
Southern Trains management say they want to introduce driver only trains for the benefit of customers.

But IMO they really want to do it to decrease costs and there is not only no benefit to driver only trains but things are worse without a guard on the train.

A driver should concentrate on driving the train and not be distracted by having to open and close doors or worry about trouble in the carriages.
While a guard can collect tickets, look out for passengers causing trouble, or for lost or dangerous luggage left and can get off the train at stations to make sure that closing the doors is safe to do.

This is so obviously a cost saving measure and nothing to do with the customers.
Driver only trains operate safely all over the network. At present, on Southern, if a guard does not report for duty the train gets cancelled. If it were DOO, the train could run. Therefore the service provided to passengers will improve. Under Southern's proposals nobody will lose their job, nobody will lose any pay and trains will not routinely run with only a driver on board. The new position being proposed is On Board Supervisor and 222 of Southern's 223 conductors have accepted the proposals. The strikes are political.
Gary Halliday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:31
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,670
I always seem to get on trains where there are guards and conductors. ( except London tube)
Maybe, I travel on the wrong type of train.
Here are a list of services which are Driver Only Operated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-ma...Man_Operations

This doesn't mean that there aren't other staff on board, just that legally only the driver is required.
LostFool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:39
Mark_Jones9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,827
British transport police statistics have crimes up year on year. Theft from passengers, violence against the person, sex offences, even murder and attempted murder. This coincides with reduction in train and platform staff.
Mark_Jones9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:42
TeeGee
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Satanic Mills
Posts: 4,809
The poll should have included: I can't afford to go on a train nowadays.
TeeGee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:43
Tanky
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,710
Driver only trains operate safely all over the network. At present, on Southern, if a guard does not report for duty the train gets cancelled. If it were DOO, the train could run. Therefore the service provided to passengers will improve. Under Southern's proposals nobody will lose their job, nobody will lose any pay and trains will not routinely run with only a driver on board. The new position being proposed is On Board Supervisor and 222 of Southern's 223 conductors have accepted the proposals. The strikes are political.
Yeah but for how long, I feel eventually they will be made redundant at a later date, if they accept the deal. Why would you pay someone, when the position of guard, doesn't exist anymore?

Just want to know, how many carriages do these trains have? Also do they have automatic doors? Are they the type of train like the long distance, which have manual doors and with lots of carriages?

In any case, why don't they have a camera system for the doors, and screen for the drive to check the doors?
Tanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 15:46
Mark39London
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,847
British transport police statistics have crimes up year on year. Theft from passengers, violence against the person, sex offences, even murder and attempted murder. This coincides with reduction in train and platform staff.
Do these statistics correlate to the services running without a guard and are they seasonally adjusted / weighted to high crime areas?

(Statistics are a great way of providing whatever answer you want)
Mark39London is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:02
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,670
British transport police statistics have crimes up year on year. Theft from passengers, violence against the person, sex offences, even murder and attempted murder. This coincides with reduction in train and platform staff.
Coincide = coincidence -= no causal link.

It's just as likely that crime stats have been going up due to the increase in passenger numbers and better reporting.
LostFool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:08
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
Here are a list of services which are Driver Only Operated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-ma...Man_Operations

This doesn't mean that there aren't other staff on board, just that legally only the driver is required.
I've got no problem with London Underground or Overground since they've transformed most of their trains into one long walk through carriage - besides, the stations in between are short. (time wise)
My concern is with long distance travel. CCTV camera's aren't much cop if there's a serious incident.

The list shows Sweden have given up on driver only trains, due to health and safety. At least that's how I understood it.
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:10
RecordPlayer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 18,560
Nah, you're just the wrong type of passenger!
LoL - I probably am
RecordPlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:15
Joan_Ferguson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 953
I always seem to get on trains where there are guards and conductors. ( except London tube)
Maybe, I travel on the wrong type of train.
Guards are conductors.Same thing.

The man checking tickets while the driver is operating the doors has the job title ticket examiner.

The guards/conductors like to think of themselves as a better class of railway employee, because they get to operate the doors and make the PA announcements, than the TEs.

It's like the Cleese, Barker, Corbett sketch.
Joan_Ferguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:15
jmclaugh
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,965
The list shows Sweden have given up on driver only trains, due to health and safety. At least that's how I understood it.
In 2013 the transport company's health and safety representative - who (in Sweden) is a train driver appointed by a trade union deemed it to be an unsafe practice demanding it be stopped.
jmclaugh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:27.