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Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?


View Poll Results: Do you care if there is a guard on the trains?
Yes 50 56.82%
No 26 29.55%
Not Bothered 12 13.64%
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Old Yesterday, 16:16
malpasc
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Yeah but for how long, I feel eventually they will be made redundant at a later date, if they accept the deal. Why would you pay someone, when the position of guard, doesn't exist anymore?

Just want to know, how many carriages do these trains have? Also do they have automatic doors? Are they the type of train like the long distance, which have manual doors and with lots of carriages?

In any case, why don't they have a camera system for the doors, and screen for the drive to check the doors?
I think in the case of Southern the train lengths vary. However, a lot of them coming into London on commuter routes are between 8 and 12 carriages long. They have automatic doors. They also travel quite long routes - from Brighton and other south coast areas through to London. They're not quite intercity but not quite local services either.
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Old Yesterday, 16:17
Mark_Jones9
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From the article ..... This was an unusually rare set of circumstances on a train that has run without a conductor for many years and could have happened even if there had been a guard on board.
Some more rare incidents involved driver only operated trains train doors.

HAYES AND HARLINGTON – 25.07.15; A passenger trapped her hand in the last door of a train departing the station. The passenger was dragged for a distance of 8-10 m before falling to the ground. The passenger suffered bruises to her hand and head. Had she fallen between the platform edge and the train her injuries could have been more severe.

WEST WICkHAM STATION – 10.04.2015; A passenger was dragged along the platform at West Wickham after her backpack became trapped in the doors of the departing train. The backpack strap became trapped when the train doors closed unexpectedly as she was exiting the train. As the train moved off she fell into the gap between the train and the platform edge suffering life changing injuries. She was assisted by a member of the public.

CLAPHAM SOUTH STATION - 12.03.2015; A passenger’s coat became trapped between the closing doors of the train. The doors had already closed and then opened due to one set of doors encountering an obstruction. The injured passenger found the crowded carriage too much and had stepped back onto the platform to wait for the next train. As the train started to depart the passenger was dragged along and fell into the gap between the train and the platform. The passenger suffered injuries to her arm head and shoulder and was taken to hospital.

HOLBORN STATION - 03.02.2014; A passenger was dragged about 10 m along the platform by a departing Piccadilly Line train after her scarf became caught between the closing doors of one of the carriages. As the passenger approached the closing doors of the train she stopped but her scarf swung forward and got trapped by the closing door. Consequently she was dragged along the platform. A member of platform staff assisted the passenger by catching hold of her as she fell to the ground which resulted in the scarf being forcibly removed by the forward movement of the train. The passenger suffered injuries to her back and neck but the action of the member of platform staff may have saved her from being more seriously hurt.

CHARING CROSS STATION – 24.11.2012; A passenger who had just arrived at Charing Cross station on an in-bound train fell between the platform edge and a train departing to Dartford. It is not clear why she walked towards the train on the adjacent platform. As a result of the accident the passenger suffered life-changing injuries.

JARROW STATION – 12.04.2012; A passenger became trapped in one of the train doors at Jarrow station. She had arrived on the platform as the doors were closing and had placed her arm in the path of the closing door. Even though the door was not fully closed the train started to leave the station with the passenger forced to run alongside it. Another passenger on the train activated the emergency door release allowing the passenger to free herself. She fell to the platform but then left the station. It is not known whether she sustained any injuries.

KINGS CROSS STATION - 10.10.2011; A passenger attempting to board a service to Royston got her hand trapped between the doors of the train and was dragged along for a distance of approximately 20 m. The passenger managed to stay upright and pull her fingers free. She was given first aid by station staff and later visited a hospital near her home where her fingers were found to be badly bruised but not broken.

BRENTWOOD STATION – 28.01.2011; A passenger alighting from the last coach of a train at Brentwood station fell, head first between the side of the train and the platform. Another passenger saw the incident and was able to grab one of her legs. The driver of the train did not see the incident on the CCTV display provided for train dispatch and the service departed as normal. The passenger was assisted back on to the platform by other passengers. She received minor injuries including cuts and bruising. Had there been no other passengers on the platform the consequences for the injured party could have been fatal.
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Old Yesterday, 16:32
RecordPlayer
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Driver only trains operate safely all over the network. At present, on Southern, if a guard does not report for duty the train gets cancelled. If it were DOO, the train could run. Therefore the service provided to passengers will improve. Under Southern's proposals nobody will lose their job, nobody will lose any pay and trains will not routinely run with only a driver on board. The new position being proposed is On Board Supervisor and 222 of Southern's 223 conductors have accepted the proposals. The strikes are political.
Conductors are now called On Board Supervisors? Why elongate a description?

This new role is a change to the traditional Revenue Protection role. There are still as many staff on-board trains as there were before but now the On Board Supervisors are dedicated to your train service. They are free to move throughout the train offering information, checking tickets and providing you with uninterrupted excellent customer service.

What is an On Boad Supervisor doing now, that previously, a Conductor didn't?
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Old Yesterday, 16:39
jmclaugh
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Conductors are now called On Board Supervisors? Why elongate a description?

This new role is a change to the traditional Revenue Protection role. There are still as many staff on-board trains as there were before but now the On Board Supervisors are dedicated to your train service. They are free to move throughout the train offering information, checking tickets and providing you with uninterrupted excellent customer service.

What is an On Boad Supervisor doing now, that previously, a Conductor didn't?
Most amusing, now will the train arrive on time and will I get a seat on it cos I couldn't give a wotsit if there is an On Board Supervisor or not.
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Old Yesterday, 16:41
skp20040
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Has this been clarified yet, is it Driver Only trains or Driver Operated Only trains , with guards becoming Onboard Supervisors , so still there but no longer guards. There seems to be mixed info.

I know some are saying drivers closing doors are dangerous (not sure as I am not a train buff so to speak) , could they not or do they not have have sensors on doors so if someone is in the middle as they close they open again (as lifts do) and the train cannot move ?
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Old Yesterday, 16:43
jmclaugh
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Has this been clarified yet, is it Driver Only trains or Driver Operated Only trains , with guards becoming Onboard Supervisors , so still there but no longer guards. There seems to be mixed info.
Afaik nobody is losing their job so it appears it is DOO and they will all become Onboard Supervisors, it simply means if there isn't one on the train for whatever reason the train will still run.
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Old Yesterday, 17:01
moox
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Afaik nobody is losing their job so it appears it is DOO and they will all become Onboard Supervisors, it simply means if there isn't one on the train for whatever reason the train will still run.
But some see it as a step to eliminating the "onboard supervisor" role entirely, with potential job losses.
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Old Yesterday, 19:56
welwynrose
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In other words, they want to turn guards in to train 'flight' attendants that will try to make more money for the company by selling things from a trolley. and having them come off the train at every station to close the doors will just stop them selling for those few mins.
I doubt if they'd be able to get a trolley on a crowded commuter train
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Old Yesterday, 19:59
MartinP
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Southern Rail strike: Driver-only trains declared safe as fresh walkout looms

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-a3433276.html

Britain’s rail safety watchdog today declared that driver-only operated trains are safe, in a dramatic intervention before next week’s planned rail strikes.

Inspectors rode in the cab alongside drivers on Southern trains to check union claims that using cameras to monitor doors and passengers is potentially dangerous.

The issue is at the heart of the ongoing dispute, which has caused months of misery for commuters.

The inspectors concluded that the system was safe for both passengers and drivers, but recommended that steps be taken to enhance the “adequate” image quality on the screens, including “immediate improvement” in the cleaning of camera lenses.
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Old Yesterday, 20:55
koantemplation
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Southern Rail strike: Driver-only trains declared safe as fresh walkout looms

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-a3433276.html

Britain’s rail safety watchdog today declared that driver-only operated trains are safe, in a dramatic intervention before next week’s planned rail strikes.

Inspectors rode in the cab alongside drivers on Southern trains to check union claims that using cameras to monitor doors and passengers is potentially dangerous.

The issue is at the heart of the ongoing dispute, which has caused months of misery for commuters.

The inspectors concluded that the system was safe for both passengers and drivers, but recommended that steps be taken to enhance the “adequate” image quality on the screens, including “immediate improvement” in the cleaning of camera lenses.
This will be the same 'safety' organisation that thinks that having loads of people jam packed into trains is safe.
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Old Yesterday, 21:02
MartinP
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This will be the same 'safety' organisation that thinks that having loads of people jam packed into trains is safe.
Which report was that?
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Old Yesterday, 21:20
kidspud
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I was once involved in a terrible incident on a train when a young man running across the line was hit by the train and killed.

The 'friend' who was with him was not only distraught, but also high on something and decided that he was going to get into the train and attack the passengers.

He started by screaming from outside and threatening to set the train on fire he then decided to start throwing bricks at the window which didn't break, before he managed to find the external door release and get into the train.

There were several terrified people on the train and 3 of us decided to deal with the situation by restraining him.

What of the guard? He hid in the drivers cabin behind a locked door, that's what he thought of passenger safety.
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Old Yesterday, 21:30
davidmcn
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Has this been clarified yet, is it Driver Only trains or Driver Operated Only trains , with guards becoming Onboard Supervisors , so still there but no longer guards.
The latter (as on other TOCs e.g. Scotrail have Ticket Examiners on their DOO services). So still someone to assist passengers, sell tickets etc.

I know some are saying drivers closing doors are dangerous (not sure as I am not a train buff so to speak) , could they not or do they not have have sensors on doors so if someone is in the middle as they close they open again (as lifts do) and the train cannot move ?
In theory this should happen but the sensors aren't all that sensitive - some of the incidents posted above where where hands/straps got trapped in the doors. So no matter whether driver or guard is doing it*, there needs to be a visual check that nobody appears to be trapped.

* worth noting that this isn't about an "extra pair of eyes" - it's either the driver or the guard responsible for the doors, not both.
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Unread Today, 09:18
malpasc
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Has this been clarified yet, is it Driver Only trains or Driver Operated Only trains , with guards becoming Onboard Supervisors , so still there but no longer guards. There seems to be mixed info.

I know some are saying drivers closing doors are dangerous (not sure as I am not a train buff so to speak) , could they not or do they not have have sensors on doors so if someone is in the middle as they close they open again (as lifts do) and the train cannot move ?
I think they do have sensors but they aren't completely failsafe I would imagine (I'm also not a train buff). The trains on the London Underground Victoria Line have 'sensitive edge' technology and I know with those the train cannot go anywhere even if there is something really tiny caught within them. In fact if whatever the system senses isn't removed after more than a few attempts the entire train has to be taken out of service.

That said, most Underground stations at busy times have platform staff who can also visually check everything is ok before dispatching the train.
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Unread Today, 09:37
koantemplation
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Which report was that?
The one that we haven't had despite loads of trains being jam packed.

But you knew that when you asked.
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Unread Today, 09:41
koantemplation
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This is just about the cost of having an extra employee on the train.

We all know that staffing costs are one of the most expensive parts of running a company and most employers see it as a cost, rather than providing jobs for people, because people need jobs.

So if they can get rid of a staff member or downgrade their job title so they pay less, they will do it, whether safety is an issue or not.

Southern have shown their true colours.
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Unread Today, 10:13
Jayceef1
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This is just about the cost of having an extra employee on the train.

We all know that staffing costs are one of the most expensive parts of running a company and most employers see it as a cost, rather than providing jobs for people, because people need jobs.

So if they can get rid of a staff member or downgrade their job title so they pay less, they will do it, whether safety is an issue or not.

Southern have shown their true colours.
How can it be when no one is losing a job, no one is taking a pay cut?
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Unread Today, 10:16
Annsyre
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I was once involved in a terrible incident on a train when a young man running across the line was hit by the train and killed.

The 'friend' who was with him was not only distraught, but also high on something and decided that he was going to get into the train and attack the passengers.

He started by screaming from outside and threatening to set the train on fire he then decided to start throwing bricks at the window which didn't break, before he managed to find the external door release and get into the train.

There were several terrified people on the train and 3 of us decided to deal with the situation by restraining him.

What of the guard? He hid in the drivers cabin behind a locked door, that's what he thought of passenger safety.
What a horrific experience.
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