I don't think I was twisting anything. You used the example of baseball-bat man to argue that it is sometimes reasonable to make judgements but I don't understand how that relates to people wearing pyjamas which is the topic of this thread.

We probably all do make judgements on others sometimes if we're honest. Sometimes its reasonable, say if we judge someone based on their violent and aggressive behaviour. Sometimes its not reasonable though. If a landlord makes a judgement that someone would make an unsuitable tenant because they're black or gay that's clearly wrong isn't it?

So where does judging someone on wearing pyjamas to the shops fall? As long as the person behaves otherwise decently I don't personally see why anyone should judge them on it or have a problem with it. Pyjamas aren't particularly revealing or offensive. As has been pointed out the line between pyjamas and jogging bottoms and T-shirt is a fine one.

Rules about what is acceptable attire vary greatly between different cultures and generations. In some countries and cultures it would be seen as unacceptable for a woman to go out without covering her head. Years ago in this country most men wouldn't go out without wearing a hat.

Most of us would now regard those views as old fashioned or oppressive and yet some of us still seem to frown on someone wearing a loose-fitting, comfortable, modest/non-revealing outfit to the shops purely on the basis that they personally believe that its something that is primarily intended for wearing in bed.

Why are pyjamas so much worse than jeans and a T-shirt, for example?

They're very comfortable to sleep in I suppose.

I guess so. I suppose trying to generalise is never going to be entirely practical in a discussion about specifics.

There's a sliding scale of 'judging' - at one end you've got folk who judge the minutiae of every person they encounter and at the other you have those who quite frankly don't give a flying fig. What this thread is about is those who judge folk who to the shops in their nightwear. Some folk's judging barometer is set quite low and see them as 'skanky/chavvy/scum', whereas others don't see it as a problem at all.

Personally I probably make a judgement on the whole package, so if they parked their car at the supermarket in the disabled /parent with children space even though they're not disabled/with their children, this gets a subconscious black mark, if they're slovenly in their appearance, another black mark, are swearing, another one, etc. Wearing PJs per se is fairly inconsequential, but if their overall appearance and behaviour befits that of a chavvy person, well, if the cap fits...

My post was perfectly clear and my example of the man with the baseball bat was an illustration of the sorts of thought processes that we each make each and every day in life, even if we do not do it consciously.

You have acknowledged that we all make judgments. That is not in question, which is why I wonder why there are a number of people on here who are denying it and also berating others for doing it. We ALL do it, all the time.

The crux of the matter here, is that some people object to the fact that not all judgments that individuals arrive at about other people are positive and favourable ones. We all pick up on "clues" from other people based on what we observe about them and their behaviour. It's not necessary for someone to wear a stained smelly t-shirt bearing the words "I am a dirty slob" in order to form the opinion that they are dirty, unkempt and unhygienic. The clue comes from their overall appearance.

There is no doubt that some casual clothing could resemble nightwear and indeed some people may sleep in a T-shirt and shorts or leggings instead of a nightdress or pyjamas. That's not an issue because they can wear what they please in the privacy of their own home. They can sleep stark naked or in a Babygro for all I care!

Wearing items of what is clearly night-attire, such as a fluffy dressing gown and slippers to go slopping around Tescos is quite simply laziness. Fair enough it might arise that someone suddenly needs to go out to the shop unexpectedly after they have got ready for bed... but for heaven's sake have a bit of pride and put some proper clothes on! You're in a public place - not your own home.

This is a creeping but very recent development and i see no reason why just because a minority of lazy idiots currently happen to think it's acceptable to go shopping in their pyjamas, it means that everyone else has to accept it as normal acceptable behaviour.

This ^^^ is an excellent post and it sums up perfectly the attitudes that some people seem to embrace. One of my friends is a recently retired school teacher and she cannot believe how far standards of child-rearing have fallen during the course of her career. There are children who go to school these days, who have never eaten a meal at a table, they eat food from its packaging rather than a plate and who do not actually know how to eat with a knife, fork and spoon. Some children are attending school and still cannot go to the toilet or dress themselves without help - so that it takes their class teacher 20 minutes to makes sure her entire class is changed, ready for their PE lesson and a further 20 minutes to get them all changed back into their usual clothes.


By merely accepting anything as perfectly OK and condemning as snobs anyone who criticises poor standards of behaviour or just plain laziness and fecklessness, it means that society will end up adopting these low, sloppy standards of behaviour as the new version of normal. It would be sad if the 21st century marked the point at which the human race started to evolve backwards.

Nope, we all make judgements, that's not the crux of the matter though. It's how vocal and self-righteous one wants to be with their opinions.

You have explained how or why it's lazy and/or sloppy.

There is certainly an argument for curtailing smoking in further certain areas.

But when the Shouty Busybody Brigade wants to ban Pyjamas, it loses them some credibility.

Or just not that interested in other peoples opinion of what they are wearing


And sometimes it's about having enough pride and self respect to please yourself regardless of the random opinions of strangers at the supermarket


But sometimes it really can be ...


Unless you are employed by the supermarket in question and wearing PJs then these examples aren't really relevant are they.


That is of course fine, but by the same token don't be surprised when people on a forum reply saying that they think your opinion is not sufficiently compelling to be a factor in anyone else's choice of what to wear!

I tend to think people using words like:

- Slob
- Chav
- Disgusting
- Low-class
- No self-respect
- Dirty
- Smelly
- Lazy

Are generally vile and hateful, yes. I don't know why anybody has such an issue with this.

Yeah, because we all walk round with the tags on, don't we? A sane person would have realised I meant if you saw those two outfits on the street, one of them wouldn't leap out as you as a pair of pyjamas.

Whatever you do, don't visit the spitting thread then. With all the colourful adjectives and judgmental epithets flying around in there, you're likely to have a stroke!

Actually, if I'm wearing pyjamas during the day or before bed, it's because I've just got out of the shower and don't want to put on clean jeans and a top just for a few hours. I'd rather just put clean PJs on instead.

So that blows that theory out of the water!

IMO, people who go shopping in pyjamas are the type of people who think 'Shameless' is a lifestyle instructional programme as opposed to a comedy series.

IMO, people who come onto an internet forum to have a pop at people they don't even know and deride them as low class are boring old sods who probably don't have any friends in real life.

That's why this kind of thing won't affect you Mark - you don't actually meet any people in real life do you, so you have to make up reasons why you wouldn't associate with them to make yourself feel better.

That's very judgmental of you.


If someone just can't be bothered to get out of their pyjamas before going shopping then they're lazy IMO. That does not make me vile and hateful.

If someone smells and/or is dirty and I comment on it, that is me making an observation, not me being vile and hateful.

Quite a lot is subjective and quite a lot is about values and standards which are different for different people. But for you to label people in general who use certain descriptions as 'vile and hateful' is ridiculous and also ironic when it comes from someone who seems more than happy to fling out insults. For example:

"That's why this kind of thing won't affect you Mark - you don't actually meet any people in real life do you, so you have to make up reasons why you wouldn't associate with them to make yourself feel better."
(post #216)

As for the subject of this post, yes, I do think people who just can't be bothered to change out of nightwear when they go shopping are lazy and slobby. That's my opinion. It doesn't mean they're bad people, it means I think they're lazy and slobby.

Are you saying I'm not sane?

I'm saying you clearly didn't pick up on the intent of my comparison.

Oh look, someone called me a snowflake. Guess I should be quaking in my boots, eh? I'm not the one walking round and judging people I've never met.

You were clearly implying I'm not sane.

I'm happy to dole out insults when the person deserves them, yes. Considering some of the horrible things people have said on this thread, I really don't think they are deserving of politeness from me.

Anyone who uses "chavvy" and "low class" as an insult is abhorrent.

I'm enjoying finding our I'm a slovenly, lazy chav who must smell of urine and has no self-respect

I thought this was your list:

- Slob
- Chav
- Disgusting
- Low-class
- No self-respect
- Dirty
- Smelly
- Lazy

Anyway, perhaps you should heed your own opinion


IMO, people who come onto an internet forum to have a pop at people they don't even know and deride them as low class are boring old sods who probably don't have any friends in real life.