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Typical Visa to visit France (Schengen)
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Doctor_Wibble
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by howard h:
“Be fair though, if you buy a foriegn SIM card and paying their rates, that's not helping the British economy...”

On the other hand, HMRC might have an opinion on how much help UK operators give the economy, given I pay more tax on a single packet of fags than the whole lot of them put together
MajorZero
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by howard h:
“As I've said, chances are very remote. But that's no reason why authorities on the UK and EU side can't come up with a simple statement such as "at worst all both sides will need is a tourist pass for 10e which lasts 5 years and allows use of the Eu/EEA lanes at airports" if we've "nothing to worry about" AND the UK government comes out with a clear statement about the status of current EU nationals living here - such as go to your local Town Hall with proof you currently reside and there's your life-long permit.

If that happened we could all move on....and maybe even begin to support Brexit ”

But this is the thing, the UK wanted to guarantee the rights of those EU nationals but the EU flatly dismissed discussing any arrangement until A50 is invoked. Refusing an early deal and so all this could have been cleared up with simple statements is entirely down to the EU.

It is absolutely right that we want a guarantee also for our (much fewer) UK citizens living in the EU. Can you imagine if we had guaranteed the rights of all EU citizens in the UK now, and post Brexit, places like France and Germany start shipping our citizens back because there is no deal - people would be slating the government for such a clanger.
howard h
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by MajorZero:
“But this is the thing, the UK wanted to guarantee the rights of those EU nationals but the EU flatly dismissed discussing any arrangement until A50 is invoked. Refusing an early deal and so all this could have been cleared up with simple statements is entirely down to the EU.

It is absolutely right that we want a guarantee also for our (much fewer) UK citizens living in the EU. Can you imagine if we had guaranteed the rights of all EU citizens in the UK now, and post Brexit, places like France and Germany start shipping our citizens back because there is no deal - people would be slating the government for such a clanger.”

You are right in so far as it's a two-way thing, but what the government want and what the government might get are two things entirely. in an ideal world, by midnight on April 1st all this should be sorted - but I'd like to hear both sides now with the phrase "no change, nothing to negotiate" as people's lives could well be turned upside down (those here and ours abroad) and I'm sure everyone on both sides agrees that we shouldn't have the sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head.

We're dealing with human beings, not a crate of bananas. If we can't agree on people's furure - and their children of course, then Brexit should be scrapped forthwith. I'm bound to say that as a remainer - but if I were more Brexit than Boris (not hard, I admit...) I'd say the same thing.
MajorZero
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by howard h:
“You are right in so far as it's a two-way thing, but what the government want and what the government might get are two things entirely. in an ideal world, by midnight on April 1st all this should be sorted - but I'd like to hear both sides now with the phrase "no change, nothing to negotiate" as people's lives could well be turned upside down (those here and ours abroad) and I'm sure everyone on both sides agrees that we shouldn't have the sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head.

We're dealing with human beings, not a crate of bananas. If we can't agree on people's furure - and their children of course, then Brexit should be scrapped forthwith. I'm bound to say that as a remainer - but if I were more Brexit than Boris (not hard, I admit...) I'd say the same thing.”

I totally agree with you, we should hear from both sides now exactly for the reasons you say.

But scrap Brexit if not? No way. We have a fundamental right to leave the EU if we wish, we did not sign up to become part of some dictatorship we were tied to forever and both sides should acknowledge this and a fair deal/route in the interests of both sides found. It has nothing to do with whether our decision to leave was the best one or not - but both reaminers and brexiteers should really be in agreement here that we have a right to leave and be entitled to a deal that is agreeable to all and not designed to complicate leaving to the point we have no choice but to stay or vote again.
howard h
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by MajorZero:
“I totally agree with you, we should hear from both sides now exactly for the reasons you say.

But scrap Brexit if not? No way. We have a fundamental right to leave the EU if we wish, we did not sign up to become part of some dictatorship we were tied to forever and both sides should acknowledge this and a fair deal/route in the interests of both sides found. It has nothing to do with whether our decision to leave was the best one or not - but both reaminers and brexiteers should really be in agreement here that we have a right to leave and be entitled to a deal that is agreeable to all and not designed to complicate leaving to the point we have no choice but to stay or vote again.”

Can you explain why you think the EU is a "dictatorship", maybe referring to North Korea, or the former Eastern Bloc states? It's a rather emotive term, as is "tyranny" which I keep reading.

How has being a member of the EU affected your life negatively, and how has the "dictatorship" prevented you form carrying on your normal life?

1000 words, on my desk next Tuesday.
MajorZero
06-01-2017
Originally Posted by howard h:
“Can you explain why you think the EU is a "dictatorship", maybe referring to North Korea, or the former Eastern Bloc states? It's a rather emotive term, as is "tyranny" which I keep reading.

How has being a member of the EU affected your life negatively, and how has the "dictatorship" prevented you form carrying on your normal life?

1000 words, on my desk next Tuesday.”

My opinion of the EU and whether I am for and against has nothing to do with this, I was commenting on the idea we should scrap Brexit if we don't get what we want or negotiation is made hard for us. It is meant to be a union you can leave - if negotiation is deliberately made hard for us to cause political turmoil in the UK or restrict our citizens then that's not really in the spirit of what we actually joined up to.
001_ATLANTIS
Yesterday, 00:22
Originally Posted by MajorZero:
“My opinion of the EU and whether I am for and against has nothing to do with this, I was commenting on the idea we should scrap Brexit if we don't get what we want or negotiation is made hard for us. It is meant to be a union you can leave - if negotiation is deliberately made hard for us to cause political turmoil in the UK or restrict our citizens then that's not really in the spirit of what we actually joined up to.”

Firstly, it was never meant to be a union you just walked away from. From what we have seen thus far, leaving was deliberately intended to be difficult so as to act as a deterrant. I'm also somewhat amused at the realisation that "johnny foreigner" may not play by the rule book. Of course he won't (and to be fair neither will we!). This is going to be a very dirty fight and will not be pretty. There is everything to play for and the prize is just to great to loose.
MajorZero
Yesterday, 11:42
Originally Posted by 001_ATLANTIS:
“Firstly, it was never meant to be a union you just walked away from. From what we have seen thus far, leaving was deliberately intended to be difficult so as to act as a deterrant. I'm also somewhat amused at the realisation that "johnny foreigner" may not play by the rule book. Of course he won't (and to be fair neither will we!). This is going to be a very dirty fight and will not be pretty. There is everything to play for and the prize is just to great to loose.”

I think a deal will be done. I think our money and things like our co-operation in security and military intelligence is too important to just let us walk. They do need us. It's probably more of a question as to what can be negotiated that leaves both sides claiming they succeeded.
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