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Why it's time to end EU free movement - Vince Cable


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Old Yesterday, 20:21
James_Orton
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Very good piece by Vince Cable. I think he makes some very good points.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-free-movement

I spent five years as secretary of state battling the Tories’ foolish net immigration target and damaging restrictions on overseas students and workers. As a liberal economist, I welcome freer trade and globalisation in general; and as a political liberal I oppose attempts to fence people in. I naturally value the freedom to travel around Europe for business or pleasure with minimal restriction.

But I have serious doubts that EU free movement is tenable or even desirable. First, the freedom is not a universal right, but selective. It does not apply to Indians, Jamaicans, Americans or Australians. They face complex and often harsh visa restrictions. One uncomfortable feature of the referendum was the large Brexit vote among British Asians, many of whom resented the contrast between the restrictions they face and the welcome mat laid out for Poles and Romanians.
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Old Yesterday, 20:30
MartinP
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Has he always felt this way?

He's certainly now diametrically opposed to Tim Farron's policy:

"Liberal Democrat grandee Sir Vince Cable has branded the idea of a second EU referendum as "seriously disrespectful", in a blow to Tim Farron and his flagship Brexit policy."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vince-cable...m-plan-1582170

The intervention plunged the party grandee, who left the Commons in 2015, directly into conflict with leader Tim Farron who is a passionate defender of open borders.

Last night Mr Farron issued a furious slap down of his former colleague, opening a serious rift within Britain’s third largest party.

Last summer the party chief launched a passionate defence of open borders claiming: “For hundreds of years, migration has enriched our language, culture and society, and has helped to drive innovation, productivity and economic growth.” He added: “Progressives need to be making the positive case for immigration.”

But Mr Farron’s spokesman hit out last night: “Vince’s views are his own, he is not a Member of Parliament and he does not speak for the party.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/254504...r-for-britain/

Not a lot of love lost between these two!
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Old Yesterday, 20:30
Mr Oleo Strut
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Very good piece by Vince Cable. I think he makes some very good points.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-free-movement
Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
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Old Yesterday, 20:36
MARTYM8
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Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
So how many more people should we accommodate. Ten million, twenty million, thirty million? Can we apply a special supertax on you to pay for the homes, the schools, the roads, the transport infrastructure, the utility and water supplies and more?

Cos we can't even properly house the people we have here already.

There is a new film out shortly - it's called la la land. You might enjoy it.
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Old Yesterday, 20:43
Dotheboyshall
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Seems his argument is because non-EU folk can't emigrate to the UK as easily as EU folk.
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Old Yesterday, 21:06
Tanky
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Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
How is it isolationist, if EU citizens apply for visas and work in the UK? There's no prevention from them apply for visas.

So tell me this, do Russians get freedom of movement to the EU? They are European too you know, yet they don't get FOM into the EU. Even Ukraine doesn't get FOM into the EU, are they not European either. I wonder if the Turkish are classed as Europeans?
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Old Yesterday, 21:14
Tassium
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People like Cable have an interest in the welfare of the worlds population.

But such a naive idealism is actually harming, as we have seen in real life it becomes a means to exploit people.

I assume he thinks such exploitation is a price worth paying for a "future utopia"
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Old Yesterday, 22:30
Buster1874
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Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
How many are you putting up then?
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Old Yesterday, 22:34
mickmars
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Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
You are deeply in denial.
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Old Yesterday, 22:38
fefster
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Vince Cable is wrong.this time. Britain is in Europe, and its inhabitants are Europeans whatever their ethnic origins. Their freedom to move without restraint across the EU is a magnificent achievement and one that Brexit must not be allowed to change. People from other countries flock to Europe because their prospects are better. Take note of that, Brexiters, as you coast towards isolationism and chaos.
In decades to come, this kind of thinking will be as unfathomable to people as it is to us now to consider taking slaves.
It is so deeply flawed in argument that it can only come from a brainwashed mind.
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Old Yesterday, 22:44
Mr Oleo Strut
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So how many more people should we accommodate. Ten million, twenty million, thirty million? Can we apply a special supertax on you to pay for the homes, the schools, the roads, the transport infrastructure, the utility and water supplies and more?

Cos we can't even properly house the people we have here already.

There is a new film out shortly - it's called la la land. You might enjoy it.
How the UK governs itself is its own affair. If you offer quick access to benefits, sure, the world will turn up wanting them. It's you who are living in la la land. Tighten up and get a grip. Stop blaming everybody else for your own incompetence.
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Old Yesterday, 22:49
Mr Oleo Strut
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In decades to come, this kind of thinking will be as unfathomable to people as it is to us now to consider taking slaves.
It is so deeply flawed in argument that it can only come from a brainwashed mind.
You are the one who is brainwashed. The UK is wide open to anybody seeking quick access to benefits. That is the reason the world flocks to the UK. Get a grip and stop blaming the EU for your self-imposed problems.
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Old Yesterday, 22:52
Mr Oleo Strut
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You are deeply in denial.
I am deeply right about the folly of Brexit and its denial of common sense.
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Old Yesterday, 22:57
Mr Oleo Strut
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How many are you putting up then?
I'm not putting any up. Most work, pay tax and put themselves up and are a credit and vital to the UK. If they leave you'll have to butter your own parsnips and that will come as a bit of a shock after years of watching somebody else doing all the work.
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Old Yesterday, 22:58
outof thepark
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How the UK governs itself is its own affair. If you offer quick access to benefits, sure, the world will turn up wanting them. It's you who are living in la la land. Tighten up and get a grip. Stop blaming everybody else for your own incompetence.
Totally agree the UK goverment have for years promoted policies with no accountability,
The EU FOM does have restrictions,which are applied by each country.
It is quite obvious that that at the moment the political elite are in a mess because they have blamed the EU for their own incompetence, and now are seeing the result and the damage that might ensue.
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Old Yesterday, 23:00
Mr Oleo Strut
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How is it isolationist, if EU citizens apply for visas and work in the UK? There's no prevention from them apply for visas.

So tell me this, do Russians get freedom of movement to the EU? They are European too you know, yet they don't get FOM into the EU. Even Ukraine doesn't get FOM into the EU, are they not European either. I wonder if the Turkish are classed as Europeans?
Ah, well spotted. I meant EU citizens. Even I am allowed the odd correction.
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Old Yesterday, 23:04
FusionFury
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Great !
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Old Yesterday, 23:04
Mr Oleo Strut
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Totally agree the UK goverment have for years promoted policies with no accountability,
The EU FOM does have restrictions,which are applied by each country.
It is quite obvious that that at the moment the political elite are in a mess because they have blamed the EU for their own incompetence, and now are seeing the result and the damage that might ensue.
You are quite right. The U.K. Is responsible for its own shambolic situation and should face the facts and stop blaming other people and the EU.
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Old Yesterday, 23:21
BrokenArrow
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You are quite right. The U.K. Is responsible for its own shambolic situation and should face the facts and stop blaming other people and the EU.
Freedom of movement caused Brexit.

Who else can be blamed other than the EU and pro EU UK politicians for causing this situation ?
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Old Yesterday, 23:23
MARTYM8
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Totally agree the UK goverment have for years promoted policies with no accountability,
The EU FOM does have restrictions,which are applied by each country.
It is quite obvious that that at the moment the political elite are in a mess because they have blamed the EU for their own incompetence, and now are seeing the result and the damage that might ensue.
We do have an issue with our non contributory benefits and NHS system - but try reforming housing benefit and tax credits or making foreign nationals pay for their NHS care and you get howls of outrage.

Beyond emergency care we wouldn't qualify for free healthcare in most of Eastern Europe as they have a social insurance system and you usually have to have an insurance policy via your employer - and housing benefit doesn't exist in most cases let alone tax credits.

My issue is - if we can't get it if we go to their country why should EU nationals get these entitlements when they move here effectively on day one. I cannot get housing benefit or free healthcare or tax credits if I move to Poland - so how come Poles are entitled to these immediately if they move here?

http://www.migrant.info.pl/Health_in...ical_care.html
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Old Today, 00:05
outof thepark
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We do have an issue with our non contributory benefits and NHS system - but try reforming housing benefit and tax credits or making foreign nationals pay for their NHS care and you get howls of outrage.

Beyond emergency care we wouldn't qualify for free healthcare in most of Eastern Europe as they have a social insurance system and you usually have to have an insurance policy via your employer - and housing benefit doesn't exist in most cases let alone tax credits.

My issue is - if we can't get it if we go to their country why should EU nationals get these entitlements when they move here effectively on day one. I cannot get housing benefit or free healthcare or tax credits if I move to Poland - so how come Poles are entitled to these immediately if they move here?

http://www.migrant.info.pl/Health_in...ical_care.html
The U.K. Can demand to see health insurance from an EU national resident in the UK who is not working, that is well within the EU rules, once they are working and paying tax they cannot not be discriminated against and are entitled to the same rights as a national, that's the same rules as in Poland.
Yes we have a better benefit system than Poland I agree, but the is no difference in applying the principle.
Cameron agrement from the EU to limit "in work benefits" to EU nationals for a period of 4 years phased in up 7, was actually not a joke as every considers it, and A very good concession, but it depends what standpoint you are coming from.
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Old Today, 00:24
MARTYM8
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The U.K. Can demand to see health insurance from an EU national resident in the UK who is not working, that is well within the EU rules, once they are working and paying tax they cannot not be discriminated against and are entitled to the same rights as a national, that's the same rules as in Poland.
Yes we have a better benefit system than Poland I agree, but the is no difference in applying the principle.
And how many NHS hospitals ever do that? The only place in most NHS hospitals that takes debit or credit cards is the coffee shop.

The whole organisation has no system or structure in place for enforcing payment and ensuring eligibility or payment before treatment is given. Many NHS doctors think asking people to pay for their treatment if they aren't entitled to free NHS care is inhumane - even though it's what almost every other nation does.
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Old Today, 00:35
outof thepark
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And how many NHS hospitals ever do that? The only place in most NHS hospitals that takes debit or credit cards is the coffee shop.

The whole organisation has no system or structure in place for enforcing payment and ensuring eligibility or payment before treatment is given. Many NHS doctors think asking people to pay for their treatment if they aren't entitled to free NHS care is inhumane - even though it's what almost every other nation does.
??
Not understanding your argument
You have to have a NHS number to get treatment, is that not issued by the authorities?
I don't expect Dr's to watch people dying on the street and not try and help
If the NHS is such a basket case in structure and system who's fault is that?
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Old Today, 02:52
david16
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Has he always felt this way?

He's certainly now diametrically opposed to Tim Farron's policy:

"Liberal Democrat grandee Sir Vince Cable has branded the idea of a second EU referendum as "seriously disrespectful", in a blow to Tim Farron and his flagship Brexit policy."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vince-cable...m-plan-1582170

The intervention plunged the party grandee, who left the Commons in 2015, directly into conflict with leader Tim Farron who is a passionate defender of open borders.

Last night Mr Farron issued a furious slap down of his former colleague, opening a serious rift within Britain’s third largest party.

Last summer the party chief launched a passionate defence of open borders claiming: “For hundreds of years, migration has enriched our language, culture and society, and has helped to drive innovation, productivity and economic growth.” He added: “Progressives need to be making the positive case for immigration.”

But Mr Farron’s spokesman hit out last night: “Vince’s views are his own, he is not a Member of Parliament and he does not speak for the party.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/254504...r-for-britain/

Not a lot of love lost between these two!
How can a party who only won 8 seats in the Commons at the last General Election and not hold the third largest number of seats in the commons be the third biggest party?

I just can't see them suddenly achieving something like 14% and picking up 50 to 60 seats at the next general election, or 2025, 2030, 2035 etc etc either.

How on earth is picking up 14% or 15% at a general elections? Why did their 15% of the vote pick up a lot more seats than other parties who produce near enough the same share of the vote all those years?
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Old Today, 05:21
Miasima Goria
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And how many NHS hospitals ever do that? The only place in most NHS hospitals that takes debit or credit cards is the coffee shop.

The whole organisation has no system or structure in place for enforcing payment and ensuring eligibility or payment before treatment is given. Many NHS doctors think asking people to pay for their treatment if they aren't entitled to free NHS care is inhumane - even though it's what almost every other nation does.
BIB There's been pilots around this already.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-nhs-treatment

Other parts of the NHS have been experimenting with tougher identity checks. It was disclosed earlier this year that at least one hospital in south London piloted a scheme to cut what has been described as “maternity tourism”.

Expectant mothers going to St George’s in Tooting will have to provide papers showing they are eligible for free NHS care when they arrive for scans. Those unable to do so will be referred to the Home Office and could face deportation.


And I assume you'd people rather not get treated if they looked a bit foreign and could not prove they had access to free treatment? And from my personal experience, you'll get treated in most countries - at least if you're white and speak nicely at any rate,
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